US Election 2020 (3 Viewers)

Who do you think will win?

  • Trump/Pence

    Votes: 4 19.0%
  • Biden/Harris

    Votes: 12 57.1%
  • Monsoon/Heenan

    Votes: 5 23.8%

  • Total voters
    21
  • Poll closed .
there is a history of governments running dangerous medical experiments on the poor , Henrietta Lacks being the most famous


There is a history of gov/pharma running dangerous medical expts on the poor, but Henrietta Lacks isn't an example of this. Henrietta Lacks is an example of dubious / unethical science, but not dangerous experiments. Tuskegee Syphilis Study - Wikipedia would be or the US Army's various drug experiments, eg LSD would be better examples.

If anyone else is reading: Lacks was a black woman, who had a tumour biopsy taken and the cells cultured. These cells had the senescence genetics knocked out I guess, meaning they were "immortal", but otherwise normal. This meant cell biologists had a perfect strain of cells to work on, which they did, and that strain was called HeLa. I think I worked with HeLa cells in a past life, I forget what strains I used. HeLa cells are really important in medical science though, and have been used in virtually every study when I used to read this stuff.

But, it wasn't dangerous to Henrietta, she went in for a cervical cancer test(?) which I assume came up positive, and they did whatever they could for her. Presumably not much, since she was black, American, and probably poor, and not able to pay for proper health care.

Henrietta didn't know about this, she never gave consent, or was told about this stuff, nor did anyone give her or her relatives any money. So, it's dubious, but it wasn't dangerous to her.
 
There is a history of gov/pharma running dangerous medical expts on the poor, but Henrietta Lacks isn't an example of this. Henrietta Lacks is an example of dubious / unethical science, but not dangerous experiments. Tuskegee Syphilis Study - Wikipedia would be or the US Army's various drug experiments, eg LSD would be better examples.

If anyone else is reading: Lacks was a black woman, who had a tumour biopsy taken and the cells cultured. These cells had the senescence genetics knocked out I guess, meaning they were "immortal", but otherwise normal. This meant cell biologists had a perfect strain of cells to work on, which they did, and that strain was called HeLa. I think I worked with HeLa cells in a past life, I forget what strains I used. HeLa cells are really important in medical science though, and have been used in virtually every study when I used to read this stuff.

But, it wasn't dangerous to Henrietta, she went in for a cervical cancer test(?) which I assume came up positive, and they did whatever they could for her. Presumably not much, since she was black, American, and probably poor, and not able to pay for proper health care.

Henrietta didn't know about this, she never gave consent, or was told about this stuff, nor did anyone give her or her relatives any money. So, it's dubious, but it wasn't dangerous to her.
MKUltra being another example.

And to be honest, what happened to Henrietta Lacks may not have hurt her directly but it is the stuff of horror films and you really can't underestimate how dehumanizing and straight up evil it was to think it was ok to do it without permission.
 
MKUltra being another example.

And to be honest, what happened to Henrietta Lacks may not have hurt her directly but it is the stuff of horror films and you really can't underestimate how dehumanizing and straight up evil it was to think it was ok to do it without permission.
yeah... there's a fair selection of them.
 
what happened to Henrietta Lacks may not have hurt her directly but it is the stuff of horror films and you really can't underestimate how dehumanizing and straight up evil it was to think it was ok to do it without permission
Horror films? I don't get that at all. It didn't do anyone any harm, and did an awful lot of people a lot of good. Cells are just cells. I honestly don't get why it was dehumanizing or evil.
 
my conspiracy theory inside a conspiracy theory: qanon is partly a folk movement of paranoid racists. but it is largely an intelligence operation being run by an external nation-state to destabilise the USA. or, more likely, several intelligence operations run by several nation-states. like opportunistic infections of an already-vulnerable patient.

I post this very much with my hot-take hat on. but I think it’s worth giving some consideration to.
 
Old enough to remember when Echelon was proper tinfoil hat territory. And let’s not forget Operation Northwoods etc.
 
by way of actual evidence: you might remember that there was a US army exercise in 2015 called jade helm. the paranoid types went nuts claiming that it was the beginning of martial law and the satanic takeover of america by obama and hillary, etc etc etc.

in 2018, it emerged that the paranoid reaction was largely stoked by russians shitposting on facebook. don’t take my word for it, here’s Michael Hayden, former boss of both the CIA and NSA, straight-out saying it:

Hysteria over Jade Helm exercise in Texas was fueled by Russians, former CIA director says

so: if it worked so well in 2015, why wouldn’t they just keep on doing it? in which case, what is QAnon?
 
Horror films? I don't get that at all. It didn't do anyone any harm, and did an awful lot of people a lot of good. Cells are just cells. I honestly don't get why it was dehumanizing or evil.
I get that no harm was intended by the scientists doing science, or the medical profiteers making profit, I suppose the evil was society in the USA at the time who didn't think much of doing this kind of thing without permission to a poor black person. They didn't do it because she was black and poor, they got away with it because she was black and poor. "Cells are just cells" is pretty much exactly how it's dehumanizing.
my conspiracy theory inside a conspiracy theory: qanon is partly a folk movement of paranoid racists. but it is largely an intelligence operation being run by an external nation-state to destabilise the USA. or, more likely, several intelligence operations run by several nation-states. like opportunistic infections of an already-vulnerable patient.

I post this very much with my hot-take hat on. but I think it’s worth giving some consideration to.
Why not. I mean, it's like anything in these areas, it's almost certainly worse than you think but if you try and prove it you'll lose your mind/job/reputation long before you get any hard evidence and it'll probably be fucked up in a totally different way to what you thought anyway.
 
by way of actual evidence: you might remember that there was a US army exercise in 2015 called jade helm. the paranoid types went nuts claiming that it was the beginning of martial law and the satanic takeover of america by obama and hillary, etc etc etc.

in 2018, it emerged that the paranoid reaction was largely stoked by russians shitposting on facebook. don’t take my word for it, here’s Michael Hayden, former boss of both the CIA and NSA, straight-out saying it:

Hysteria over Jade Helm exercise in Texas was fueled by Russians, former CIA director says

so: if it worked so well in 2015, why wouldn’t they just keep on doing it? in which case, what is QAnon?
lol i'm not gonna take the word of the former CIA and NSA boss for anything
 
lol i'm not gonna take the word of the former CIA and NSA boss for anything
why not? historically they have often spoken quite candidly and honestly when it suited their purposes. they lie strategically a lot of the time. they also often speak the truth strategically a lot of the time.

aaaaaaand the further development of this hot take: the QAnon insurrection was the beginning of the process of revenge-taking for the assasination of Qasem Soleimani
 
why not? historically they have often spoken quite candidly and honestly when it suited their purposes. they lie strategically a lot of the time. they also often speak the truth strategically a lot of the time.
That's why i'm not taking their word for it! I have no idea. But you do make a good point, I may as well take their word for it at the same time.
 
I get that no harm was intended by the scientists doing science, or the medical profiteers making profit, I suppose the evil was society in the USA at the time who didn't think much of doing this kind of thing without permission to a poor black person. They didn't do it because she was black and poor, they got away with it because she was black and poor. "Cells are just cells" is pretty much exactly how it's dehumanizing.
Ok weird. Your last sentence there is kind of the nub of the whole thing. I don't see how it's dehumanizing at all, but I guess it's one of those emotional things you either feel or you don't
 
"Cells are just cells" is pretty much exactly how it's dehumanizing.


Cells are just cells though. If you start going down this route you end up holding Masses for all your jizz swimmers that end up blocking public water fountains etc.

It was unethical, but there does have to be some weighing done. HeLa cells have been massively helpful to science, and therefore humanity in general. Those cells have saved countless lives. The fact she didn't know about it sucks, but it's not evil in the way lots of other things are. It's dubious. But, realistically it had zero impact on Henrietta, to the extent that I don't think she ever even knew about it.
 
lol i'm not gonna take the word of the former CIA and NSA boss for anything

so... it's actually quite difficult to lie in the US gov. Believe it or not.

Like, you can lie, obviously. But (as is beaten into me yearly) they have an insane record keeping system, and virtually everything is logged, somewhere. And a lot of people know about it.

If you lie (and I'm not talking about Shithead Orange Fat Fuck McRacist here - I'm talking normal gov people), you're ultimately probably going to get found out.

To lie about say, something like MKUltra not happening, or Aliens secretly visiting etc, would take a level of coordination that I don't think exists here. It would simply be too complicated and difficult to lie about that kind of thing, in the long run. Too many people know, too much stuff is written down. Sure you can get higher level of secrets, and I'm not involved in that obviously, but fundamentally all of these arguments are kind of scuppered by the general ineptitude of the people who purportedly run these massive lies.

So, on the whole, I don't buy them. (Again though, I'm talking about in the long term, it's easy to say a lie, it's hard to impossible to keep something like we're talking about covered up.)
 
I don't see how all this speculation is going to help us find the pizza dungeon where Hilary and Bill drink kids blood


That was different. That was Hillary.

Funnily enough I went to that pizza place a few times before all that stuff was found out. I was NOT going there to rape and murder kids though.

That was something I just got caught up in since everyone else was doing it.
 

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