Trigger Warning (1 Viewer)

Cornu Ammonis

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I was in college with someone who had that nickname cos he had black curly hair

Like @thumped says though - that stuff wasn't actually racist, we all thought American black people were cool as fuck. My aunt is married to a Yank, when we were little my brother was convinced he was black (he's not) because he thought "black" meant "cool American".
Go ask a black person if they agree with you about it being not racist.
 

egg_

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If a Irish child in the 80s gave their friend the N-word as a nickname because they looked vaguely dark, it doesn't follow that they thought black people were inferior to white people. Believing that one race is inferior to another is what I mean by "racist"

If a black person heard that kid *using* that nickname, they'd be offended. I guess that's what you mean by "racist"?

Maybe I need to start qualifying the word and say "racist by intention" or "racist by outcome" depending on which I'm referring to
 

Lili Marlene

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I'd say we just stick with the dictionary definition of it being racist, regardless of intent.

Sure I learnt the racist eeny meeny miny moe thinking the n-word was another nonsense word. Then I was told it was a black person. Then I was told much later that it was a bad word for a black person.
 

JohnnyRaz

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If a Irish child in the 80s gave their friend the N-word as a nickname because they looked vaguely dark, it doesn't follow that they thought black people were inferior to white people. Believing that one race is inferior to another is what I mean by "racist"

If a black person heard that kid *using* that nickname, they'd be offended. I guess that's what you mean by "racist"?

Maybe I need to start qualifying the word and say "racist by intention" or "racist by outcome" depending on which I'm referring to

there is the whole 'impact not intent' school of thought about this stuff....
a defense against the 'sure we're only having a bit of craic' line in fairness...
 

egg_

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I'd say we just stick with the dictionary definition of it being racist, regardless of intent.

Sure I learnt the racist eeny meeny miny moe thinking the n-word was another nonsense word. Then I was told it was a black person. Then I was told much later that it was a bad word for a black person.
Erm ... the first dictionary definition that google returns is specifically about intent

prejudiced against or antagonistic towards a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized

I totally get the 'impact not intent' thing, but surely racist-by-intent is still a useful concept? If only to distinguish between someone who actively discriminates against black people and someone who uses the old-school eeny-meeny-miny-moe?
 

Lili Marlene

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Erm ... the first dictionary definition that google returns is specifically about intent
hmmm, i'm not so sure I read it the same way as you, i'd see the prejudiced act as racist regardless of intention. I suppose i'm trying to separate acts from what's in people's heart.

I totally get the 'impact not intent' thing, but surely racist-by-intent is still a useful concept? If only to distinguish between someone who actively discriminates against black people and someone who uses the old-school eeny-meeny-miny-moe?
Sure yeah, but I think admitting that racism is built into the fabric of language and culture is a better way of looking at it. It's a racist word with racist intent that only really exists for racist reasons, which then gets embedded in society, and then get expressed in weird ways in that society. I see the little me as saying racist things and not knowing it, I don't feel ashamed about that or anything.

Racist-by-intent is definitely a useful concept, it's how we make decisions in legal cases over this kind of thing isn't it?
 

Cormcolash

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I bet these guys are anti-vax

The words of this song are ever so relevant in this f'd up World of 2021. We find ourselves fighting for our own survival I 'm sending my love to everyone all over the Earth and ask you all to join me in this practice everyday!
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Love is the most powerful weapon we have so let's use it!
💖
🌎
🌍
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I LOVE YOU ALL!
 

Lili Marlene

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I don't think you do. You missed an "a" in what @magicbastarder said.
No i didn't. I'm not fucking blind.

My point is that there are not individual "racists" and individual "not racists", there are racist acts and a racist society, I don't give a fuck what's in people's souls on their darkest nights. A ten year old or a 70 year old can do something racist and anti-racist in the same 10 minute space.

Anyway, we mostly agree so whatever.
 
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Lili Marlene

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I'm sorry it just really fucking annoys me. I'm happy to disagree about these things but I don't need Atticus Finch turning up in the middle with his homespun wisdom, "the system evolves to protect itself" levels of insight.

My own fault for reacting online, I know.

 

egg_

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No i didn't. I'm not fucking blind.

My point is that there are not individual "racists" and individual "not racists", there are racist acts and a racist society, I don't give a fuck what's in people's souls on their darkest nights. A ten year old or a 70 year old can do something racist and anti-racist in the same 10 minute space.

Anyway, we mostly agree so whatever.
You are neither blind nor non blind. Sometimes you commit a blind act
 

egg_

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My point is that there are not individual "racists" and individual "not racists", there are racist acts and a racist society
Ok. Trying to look at it that way kind of boggles my mind a bit. There is no self, only the group, and individual actions.

Not disagreeing or anything, just trying to wrap my head around it
 

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