The Uninhabitable Ireland (1 Viewer)

Lili Marlene

-
Supporter
Contributor
Thread starter
Joined
Oct 14, 2002
Messages
31,775
Solutions
3
Location
?
quite the thread attacking the Common Agricultural Policy here


 

magicbastarder

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Joined
Sep 14, 2006
Messages
10,974
Website
stroma.org
probably going to be hard to find fault with his reasoning there.
i started 'whittled away' by padraig fogarty recently. one of those 'not surprising but still shocking' sort of reads.
 

ann post

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Joined
Oct 13, 2002
Messages
25,841
Solutions
1
Location
Internment Explorer sp3
quite the thread attacking the Common Agricultural Policy here




I'm too close to getting home early to fight with monibot.

But it did remind me of this bit of a video. I've been kinda hate watching this guy recently. I mean he's personable, pretty clear and all that but also is a megafarmer with a fleet of sports cars. Anywhooo he kinda goes into things from *farmers perspective and it is lightly relevant. I put the time stamp on the bit where he starts sorta skirting around environment.

 

egg_

nerd/hippy
Supporter
Since 1999
Joined
Nov 15, 1999
Messages
12,885
Location
Where dogs wear hats and birds fly backwards
probably going to be hard to find fault with his reasoning there
Hmmm
I don't trust Monbiot. AFAICS he's a polemicist, and isn't really arsed forming a deep understanding of either the science or the politics of whatever he's ranting about - as one of the comments in the thread says, he's comparing the CAP to an imaginary perfect farming policy, not to, for example, other real-world farming policies that have been better for the environment.
 

moose

Be kind.
Supporter
Joined
Dec 14, 2003
Messages
19,583
Solutions
3
Location
In The Vicinity Of Morondom
Website
www.moosetwentythree.com
Hmmm
I don't trust Monbiot. AFAICS he's a polemicist, and isn't really arsed forming a deep understanding of either the science or the politics of whatever he's ranting about - as one of the comments in the thread says, he's comparing the CAP to an imaginary perfect farming policy, not to, for example, other real-world farming policies that have been better for the environment.
It's called blue sky thinking I think..
 

Denny Oubidoux

Hangin round town
Supporter
Joined
Sep 8, 2003
Messages
20,400
Solutions
2
Location
down in the horse corral
I dunno, he's probably more informed about these issues than most people could ever hope to be, but maybe not approaching them from pragmatic EU-central/corporate perspective. I've no idea if he's right or not but his thread there seems to me to be pointing out the problems he sees, not weighing up the pros and cons of various alternative policy options. You could take the negatives as starting points
 

magicbastarder

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Joined
Sep 14, 2006
Messages
10,974
Website
stroma.org
yeah, i tossed that line out quickly - would possibly draw a line between faulting his reasoning and faulting his conclusions, if that doesn't sound like mealy mouthed logical squirming.
 

Lili Marlene

-
Supporter
Contributor
Thread starter
Joined
Oct 14, 2002
Messages
31,775
Solutions
3
Location
?
You could probably make the argument that the EU process is completely opaque and incomprehensible by design, so people are less likely to criticize it and it can be defended with large walls of words.

I don't know. It's a bit like academic writing: sometimes things are difficult because they are complex and other times things are kept difficult as a defense mechanism. I'm certainly not informed enough about the CAP.
 

egg_

nerd/hippy
Supporter
Since 1999
Joined
Nov 15, 1999
Messages
12,885
Location
Where dogs wear hats and birds fly backwards
You could probably make the argument that the EU process is completely opaque and incomprehensible by design, so people are less likely to criticize it and it can be defended with large walls of words
You could make the argument, but I very much doubt it's true - pretty much any large system gets more complex as it evolves, so the opaque incomprehensibility of their processes doesn't need deliberate intent to explain it
 

Lili Marlene

-
Supporter
Contributor
Thread starter
Joined
Oct 14, 2002
Messages
31,775
Solutions
3
Location
?
You could make the argument, but I very much doubt it's true - pretty much any large system gets more complex as it evolves, so the opaque incomprehensibility of their processes doesn't need deliberate intent to explain it
I don't know. It's a bit like academic writing: sometimes things are difficult because they are complex and other times things are kept difficult as a defense mechanism. I'm certainly not informed enough about the CAP.
 

egg_

nerd/hippy
Supporter
Since 1999
Joined
Nov 15, 1999
Messages
12,885
Location
Where dogs wear hats and birds fly backwards
I've heard the academic writing thing before, and again I don't know if I really believe it. This stuff just happens naturally

Like look at a 2001 entry for "black hole" on wikipedia compared to today's version

Every place I've ever worked has had a workplace lingo (even more pronounced in the code) that you have to learn in order to communicate effectively. Nobody made an effort to deliberately exclude anyone - in fact, I'd say the opposite was true, turnover in tech is pretty high so it's in everyone's interest to NOT complicate things, but they still get complicated
 

Cornu Ammonis

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Contributor
Joined
Feb 1, 2011
Messages
9,973
Solutions
2
Location
Dublin
Website
brainwashed.com
Academic writing is complex because you need precision in language to talk about complex things. It's hard for academics to read too because it's not necessarily that the language is the hard part, it's what the language is trying to convey with minimal scope for misinterpretation. How do describe something as bewilderingly complex as a brain in lay terms only? Eventually your similes will not be sufficient as you get into details and truly foreign concepts, so you either have to introduce jargon or invent terms (which become jargon) or you spend so long explaining things using only words an 8 year old can understand (not being facetious here, this is a standard communications policy) that it ceases to become an efficient mechanism for disseminating scientific knowledge.

I probably could have written that more plainly.
 

Lili Marlene

-
Supporter
Contributor
Thread starter
Joined
Oct 14, 2002
Messages
31,775
Solutions
3
Location
?
What you could have said was:
Sometimes things are difficult because they are complex.

Anyway, i've read enough academic writing in areas i'm familiar with (i.e. not brain science) and have known enough academics in my time to know that

(not all) ---->>>>> some <<<<<---- (not all)


people overuse verbose and jargony language when it is unnecessary and could be put simpler and clearer and, somewhat ironically, more precisely. A lot of the time they don't even know they're doing it tbh.

It's kind of an unprovable point either way, but that's exactly why it's easy to hide behind hard-to-decipher texts. The problem being that that you have to actually read and understand the text in the first place in order to find out if they're doing it or not so they always win.
 

Lili Marlene

-
Supporter
Contributor
Thread starter
Joined
Oct 14, 2002
Messages
31,775
Solutions
3
Location
?
But anyway, the EU, a great bunch of lads, right? Those free market international trade agreements are what's good for us, right? RIGHT?
 

ernesto

Stank you very much
Supporter
Joined
Mar 21, 2004
Messages
17,785
Solutions
1
Location
in my head
Website
strikeaction.bandcamp.com
What you could have said was:


Anyway, i've read enough academic writing in areas i'm familiar with (i.e. not brain science) and have known enough academics in my time to know that

(not all) ---->>>>> some <<<<<---- (not all)


It's kind of an unprovable point either way, but that's exactly why it's easy to hide behind hard-to-decipher texts. The problem being that that you have to actually read and understand the text in the first place in order to find out if they're doing it or not so they always win.




and that’s contributed to the Democrats in USA losing the working man’s vote.
Big words and convoluted sentences just alienated most voters.

It’s a massive problem with The Liberal/left that needs to be tackled
 

Users who are viewing this thread

21 Day Calendar

The Residents
The Button Factory
Curved St, Temple Bar, Dublin, Ireland

Latest Activity

Loading…

Support thumped.com

Support thumped.com and upgrade your account

Upgrade your account now to disable all ads... If we had any... Which we don't right now.

Upgrade now

Latest posts

Latest threads

Top