The Russian invasion of Ukraine (1 Viewer)

ann post

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My wrong reasona is the 400 year supply of coal and huge amount of steel in eastern ukraine, the ego trip of rebuilding tsarist russia, of course the sweet farmland and pretty much nothing to do with nazis or nato. nato just happened to exist when putin exists.
 

Lili Marlene

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he binned that excuse way back though, did he not? I thought it was about liberating people from nazis now.
If i recall correctly, he started off with an insane rant about how Lenin was wrong to recognize Ukraine as anything but part of Russia, but the official reason for the invasion at the time was a humanitarian intervention to de-nazify the country. Which was really just trolling the west, right?

The NATO stuff is more the discourse over the past few years to decades mixed with I think some recent US rightwing nativist Tucker Carlson kinda rhetoric that really muddles it all.

Currently slowly making my way through this book, which came our a few weeks before the invasion so it's interesting to be reading all the Ukraine/NATO/Oil stuff in it.

 

ann post

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Really?? I missed that one, send us a link sure.

It's in cyrillic, but don't worry @Deadmanposting I read to widen my understanding rather that to keep abreast of my leader and guide Robert*

*Robert is english for Vladimir.


So @Lili Marlene the piece was published, then redacted, i scraped it off web archive and since then it's been removed from web archive.

However some kind soul at reddit had posted a google translate.

First image - this is the context i originally saw it in

1659010178063.png

And here is the text - it was published in a few russian outlets at the time

A new world is born before our eyes. Russia's military operation in Ukraine opened a new era - and in three dimensions at once. And of course, in the fourth, domestic. Here begins a new period both in ideology and in the very model of our socio-economic system - but it is worth talking about separately a little later.

Russia is restoring its unity - the tragedy of 1991, this terrible catastrophe of our history, its unnatural dislocation, has been overcome. Yes, at a high price, yes, through the tragic events of the virtual civil war, because now brothers separated by belonging to the Russian and Ukrainian armies are still shooting at each other - but Ukraine will no longer be like anti-Russia.

Russia is restoring its historical fullness by gathering the Russian world, the Russian people together - in its entirety of Great Russians, Belarusians and Little Russians. If we had refused this, allowed the temporary division to consolidate for centuries, we would not only betray the memory of our ancestors, but would also be cursed by our descendants - for allowing the disintegration of the Russian land.

Nationalists in Ukraine are fighting on the recommendation of foreigners, Putin said Vladimir Putin assumed - without a drop of exaggeration - historical responsibility, deciding not to leave the solution of the Ukrainian issue to future generations. After all, the need to solve it would always remain the main problem for Russia - for two key reasons. And the issue of national security, that is, the creation of anti-Russia from Ukraine and an outpost to put pressure on us in the West, is only the second most important among them.

The first would always be the complex of a divided people, a complex of national humiliation - when the Russian house first lost part of its foundation (Kiev), and then had to accept the existence of two states, not one, but two peoples. That is, either to give up your history, agreeing with the crazy versions that "only Ukraine is real Russia," or powerlessly grind your teeth, remembering the times when "we lost Ukraine." It would be more and more difficult to return Ukraine, that is, to turn it back to Russia, every decade - transcoding, derusification of Russians and setting up against Russian Little Russians-Ukrainians, would gain momentum. And if full geopolitical and military control of the West over Ukraine was consolidated, its return to Russia would be impossible at all - it would have to fight the Atlantic bloc for it.

Now there is no problem - Ukraine has returned to Russia. This does not mean that its statehood will be eliminated, but it will be rebuilt, re-established and returned to its natural state of part of the Russian world. Within what borders, in what form will the alliance with Russia be fixed (through the CSTO and the Eurasian Union or the Union State of Russia and Belarus)? This will be solved after the end of the history of Ukraine as anti-Russia is put. In any case, the period of split of the Russian people is coming to an end.

And this is where the second dimension of the coming new era begins - it concerns Russia's relations with the West. Not even Russia, but the Russian world, that is, three states, Russia, Belarus and Ukraine, acting in geopolitical terms as a whole. These relations have entered a new stage - the West sees Russia's return to its historical borders in Europe. And he is loudly indignant about it, although deep down he must confess to himself that it could not have been otherwise.

Did anyone in the old European capitals, Paris and Berlin, seriously believe that Moscow would abandon Kiev? Is it that the Russians will always be a divided people? And at the same time when Europe unites, when the German and French elites are trying to seize control over European integration from the Anglo-Saxons and gather a united Europe? Forgetting that the unification of Europe became possible only thanks to the unification of Germany, which took place by Russian good (albeit not very clever) will. Swing at Russian lands after that is not even the height of ingratitude, but of geopolitical stupidity. The West as a whole, much less Europe alone, had no strength to keep in its sphere of influence, much less take Ukraine. In order not to understand this, you had to be just geopolitical fools.

More precisely, there was only one option: to bet on the further collapse of Russia, that is, the Russian Federation. But the fact that it didn't work should have become clear twenty years ago. And fifteen years ago, after Putin's Munich speech, even the deaf could hear that Russia is returning.

Now the West is trying to punish Russia for returning, for not justified its plans to profit at its expense, for not allowing it to expand the western space to the east. In an effort to punish us, the West thinks that relations with it are vital for us. But this has not been the case for a long time - the world has changed, and this is well understood not only by Europeans, but also by the Anglo-Saxons who govern the West. No Western pressure on Russia will lead to anything. Losses from the sublimation of confrontation will be on both sides, but Russia is ready for them morally and geopolitically. But for the West itself, increasing the degree of confrontation costs - and the main ones are not economic at all.

Europe, as part of the West, wanted autonomy - the German European integration project does not make strategic sense while maintaining Anglo-Saxon ideological, military and geopolitical control over the Old World. And it can't be successful because the Anglo-Saxons need a controlled Europe. But obtaining autonomy is also necessary for Europe for another reason - in case the States moves to self-isolation (as a result of increasing internal conflicts and contradictions) or focuses on the Pacific region, where the geopolitical center of gravity is moving.

But the confrontation with Russia, in which the Anglo-Saxons draw Europe, deprives Europeans of even chances of independence - not to mention the fact that Europe is trying to impose a break with China in the same way. If now the Atlantists rejoice that the "Russian threat" will rally the Western bloc, then in Berlin and Paris they cannot help but understand that, having lost hope for autonomy, the European project will simply collapse in the medium term. That is why independent Europeans are now completely uninterested in building a new Iron Curtain on their eastern borders - realizing that it will turn into a pen for Europe. Whose century (or rather half a millennium) of global leadership is over anyway - but various options for its future are still possible.

Because the construction of a new world order - and this is the third dimension of current events - is accelerating, and its contours are increasingly emerging through the spreading cover of globalization in Anglo-Saxon. The multipolar world has finally become a reality - the operation in Ukraine is not able to rally against Russia except the West. Because the rest of the world sees and understands perfectly well - this is a conflict between Russia and the West, it is a response to the geopolitical expansion of the Atlantists, it is Russia's return to its historical space and its place in the world.

China and India, Latin America and Africa, the Islamic world and Southeast Asia - no one believes that the West is leading the world order, much less establishing the rules of the game. Russia has not just challenged the West - it has shown that the era of Western global domination can be considered completely and finally completed. The new world will be built by all civilizations and centers by forces, of course, together with the West (one or not) - but not on its terms and not according to its rules.
 

Deadmanposting

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If you think RT are casting a magic spell on me because I occasionally read their website to get a grip on what Russian state media is telling it's populace that's fine by me.
I've got no idea what effect it has on you.
I just know that it's a newsletter from an organisation that butchers people, and you're a subscriber.
 

Deadmanposting

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What if everyone is wrong about the reasons behind this war?
There's almost an entire cottage industry of takes purporting to know.
if you hate Nato, it's about Nato. If you're an expert in global food logistics, he surely wants the grain. The historians will tell you he wants to recreate Catherine the Great's empire.
But no one really knows for sure.

I think it's like asking why a man beats his wife.
It's not because of the cold dinner or how she looked at someone in the pub, or because the house is dirty or any of the other shit he's yelling while he's punching her.
It's because he's a wife beater.
 

seanc

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Ah here, that's bollocks.

I agree with you by and large like, but that's a dodgy analogy.

A bit of realpolitik is required.
 

Deadmanposting

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Everyone's got a theory, mine's that he's a born thug
He's invaded anywhere that's taken his fancy and blown up cities and killed civilians as a primary strategy wherever he's done it
It's the only real constant in Chechnya, Syria, Georgia, Ukraine etc.

He primarily does it cos he wants to and he can.
Like killing politicians and journos he hates. And all that fuck-acting around with subs in the Baltic and planes in Turkey.
I've known enough thugs to recognise one.

No one wanted this war. But about as many people thought it was a good idea strategically for him. It's a catastrophic blunder.
We give him too much credit as a thinker.
Or I think so anyways.


Too late for this.
Good aand peaceful night to all.
 

Deadmanposting

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In case anyone's wondering what happened to the defenders of Mariupol and their negotiated surrender


Their POW camp was blown to pieces

1659095033264.png

This lady says it's part of a plan to cover up Russia's war crimes

1659094940037.png


The Russians say the Ukrainians did it
 

ann post

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Everyone's got a theory, mine's that he's a born thug
He's invaded anywhere that's taken his fancy and blown up cities and killed civilians as a primary strategy wherever he's done it
It's the only real constant in Chechnya, Syria, Georgia, Ukraine etc.

He primarily does it cos he wants to and he can.
Like killing politicians and journos he hates. And all that fuck-acting around with subs in the Baltic and planes in Turkey.
I've known enough thugs to recognise one.

No one wanted this war. But about as many people thought it was a good idea strategically for him. It's a catastrophic blunder.
We give him too much credit as a thinker.
Or I think so anyways.


Too late for this.
Good aand peaceful night to all.

 

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