The Russian invasion of Ukraine (5 Viewers)

JohnnyRaz

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Is it not standard procedure for Russia to enter confidently into war, fuck up badly, and then win a long war of attrition? Like, the most predictable outcome is currently what is happening.

In regards the grain stuff, ive read some very conflicting reports, like how the (I'm making up these exact figures, but speaking generally) "80% of worlds exported grain comes from Ukraine" kind of stats are purposely misleading because in most countries about 90% of their grain is not imported but grown at home. It's only a few sub-saharan African countries who are dependent on Ukraine grain and, frankly, if we cared about them at all then the world would look very, very different.
Yeah - it’ll be higher prices all round - but some countries will be fucked.
While the west tends not to care about folks in that part of the world they’ll not want the political instability- particularly in the Middle East
 

JohnnyRaz

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Jaysus, that's a brave statement to make in the current climate

less a novel message, than an unusual source.
she's hardly your typical politician though in many respects.. (that statement is based on limited info)
 
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nuke terrorist

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Ukraine cannot conquer Russia and it's extremely unlikely to get Its territory back.
so talks and a peace agreement are the only end game. this will unfortunately involve a lot of unpalatable concessions.
it's always terrible to have to make concessions to a bully but the alternative is even worse - even more death and annihilation with no end in sight.
the sooner talks begin the better.

if this goes on into the winter it will be hell on earth for large parts of the world never mind Ukraine.
there's no point in this becoming another Syria. sad but true.
 

taubstumm

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JohnnyRaz

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wow, that’s bonkers... we must undertake world war 3 in order to avoid world war 3. there are glowing waves of cognitive dissonance throbbing through that entire article. tough times for sensible centrists.

Yeah - sketchy on the actual details of the limited nato actions that would magically solve the whole thing and not cause wwiii
 

Deadmanposting

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Ukraine cannot conquer Russia and it's extremely unlikely to get Its territory back.
so talks and a peace agreement are the only end game. this will unfortunately involve a lot of unpalatable concessions.
it's always terrible to have to make concessions to a bully but the alternative is even worse - even more death and annihilation with no end in sight.
the sooner talks begin the better.

if this goes on into the winter it will be hell on earth for large parts of the world never mind Ukraine.
there's no point in this becoming another Syria. sad but true.
So give him what he wants?
Fuck that.
Putin is always gonna do his worst no matter what.
We saw that in Syria. Barrel bombing cities. We saw it in Grozny.
He's a bit more than a bully. He wipes out civilian population centres as a foundation of his strategies.
The reason you don't give a bully what he wants isn't that's it's unpalatable, it's that it rewards the behaviour and emboldens them.

If the Ukrainians are willing to keep fighting this guy then we give them every weapon - all the HIMARS - and all the intelligence we can.
Hand-wringing in the west is something he's counting on. He views it as a weakness.

Keep wrecking his tanks, keep blowing up his ammunition depots and command centres, and keep killing Russian soldiers. That's the only language he understands. That's his negotiation.

Two years from now it's Finland. Or you name it.
 

seanc

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So give him what he wants?
Fuck that.
Putin is always gonna do his worst no matter what.
We saw that in Syria. Barrel bombing cities. We saw it in Grozny.
He's a bit more than a bully. He wipes out civilian population centres as a foundation of his strategies.
The reason you don't give a bully what he wants isn't that's it's unpalatable, it's that it rewards the behaviour and emboldens them.

If the Ukrainians are willing to keep fighting this guy then we give them every weapon - all the HIMARS - and all the intelligence we can.
Hand-wringing in the west is something he's counting on. He views it as a weakness.

Keep wrecking his tanks, keep blowing up his ammunition depots and command centres, and keep killing Russian soldiers. That's the only language he understands. That's his negotiation.

Two years from now it's Finland. Or you name it.


Oh how I wish I could disagree with you.

He won't be doing Finland though. The Finns would fuck him up more than the Ukrainians already have, He'd be better off chancing Ireland. And I wouldn't actually put that past him.

And by the way, I'VE BEEN SAYING THIS FOR YEARS!!!
 

Lili Marlene

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Lol. Remember all those times Ukraine wanted to end the war with a settlement but Johnson and Biden said that they weren't allowed?

We'll fight until the last Ukrainian if we have to, all for the sake of politics: the art of winning all the time.

Putin has us over a barrel and we helped him build it, but sure keep pushing your noble wars, nothing like other people dying for our benefit.
 

Lili Marlene

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This is what happens when NATO interferes and removes the bully in charge of the bad country

 

seanc

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Interesting how the population of Thumped, who are mostly from the neutral country of Ireland, are using words like "us" and "our". And we're all about our pronouns these days.
 

moose

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This is what happens when NATO interferes and removes the bully in charge of the bad country


I think it's a given at this stage that the invasion of Libya had everything to do with stopping a pan African currency.
 

Lili Marlene

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Interesting how the population of Thumped, who are mostly from the neutral country of Ireland, are using words like "us" and "our". And we're all about our pronouns these days.
Hey, you're telling me


I think it's a given at this stage that the invasion of Libya had everything to do with stopping a pan African currency.
And the lesson from it is: always keep your nuclear program.
 

seanc

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When I was in Russia, I was genuinely worried for my safety. The WInter Olympics had finished and Putin said "yeah, you liked that? we'll have Crimea now".
The other Irish guy (Who's actually from london but spent five years at UCG) was like, don't worry seanc, we'll just strut down the Maiden waiving our passports in the air saying "who's coming for a pint?"

The Americans were amazed that we weren't in NATO. I tried to explain why, they didn't understand.

This was 2014.
 

Deadmanposting

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Lol. Remember all those times Ukraine wanted to end the war with a settlement but Johnson and Biden said that they weren't allowed?

We'll fight until the last Ukrainian if we have to, all for the sake of politics: the art of winning all the time.

Putin has us over a barrel and we helped him build it, but sure keep pushing your noble wars, nothing like other people dying for our benefit.
or keep doing nothing so this murderous thug does it again and again
Giving him a pass is what happened in Georgia, in Chechnya, in Syria, in Ukraine, in Crimea. Giving him a pass while he bombed city after city, and killing countless civilians.
Giving him a pass when he murders people in London and in Berlin.
All he got was "Thanks for the cheap oil, Vlad."
It's what got us here. With his soldiers pillaging and raping their way through a peaceful country.
If only we were nicer to him though?
We should definitely keep trying that.

This isn't anyone's war but Putin's and it's anything but noble.
Nobody else wanted this war. Few even believed it was likely.
He alone wanted a war. He's got one. He should be made pay a price for it.

Keep talking about barrels tho.
Fucking barrels indeed.
 

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