The Russian invasion of Ukraine (3 Viewers)

JohnnyRaz

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@nuke terrorist was saying there that he's struggling to believe any of it, and I'm in the same mindset. It's unbelievably awful, and pointless. At this point I don't even think the Russians are guaranteed to win anything here. It could not have gone worse for them. Before any of this kicked off I was listening to Ukrainians getting interviewed. The main thing was they didn't believe this would happen, when pressed they said they'd fight but conceded they didn't have a chance if the Russians got rolling.

I think the ineptitude of the russian military, despite its supposed modernisation, is the biggest surprise for a lot of people coming out of this. And that will have a long term effect both within and without russia.

Forgetting the strategic blunder of doing anything more than simply roll into donetsk and luhansk and declare them part of the russian federation, this shows the rest of the world that russia performs poorly against a well prepared modern army.

not in the scale of losses (so far), but there's a touch of 1905, where the japanese handed them their arses both in land and sea battles. they had poured a fortune into developing a modern navy, but were incredibly poorly prepared and led.
 

Deadmanposting

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This was a pretty good read on how the Russian army is failing

Russia spent a lot of money on the army, but so much got siphoned off that the guys in the field were left without encrypted radios and driving on Chinese knockoff tyres etc etc

Russia’s army is in a woeful state

Summed up neatly here

In part, Russia’s woes are down to Ukraine’s heroic resistance, buoyed by a torrent of Western weaponry and intelligence. “But just as much credit for the shattering of Russian illusions lies in a phenomenon long known to military sociologists,” writes Eliot Cohen of Johns Hopkins University, “that armies, by and large, reflect the qualities of the societies from which they emerge.” Russia’s state, says Mr Cohen, “rests on corruption, lies, lawlessness and coercion”. Each one has been laid bare by Russia’s army in this war.

Difficulties in droves​

Ill-trained and poorly motivated soldiers are a liability in any conflict; they are especially unsuited to the complexities of modern combined-arms warfare, which requires tanks, infantry, artillery and air power to work in synchrony. To attempt such daunting co-ordination in Ukraine with sullen teenagers, press-ganged into service, fed expired rations and equipped with badly maintained vehicles was the height of optimism.


All that said, these are all theories chasing a story that's happened
Where were these expert lads when the world was saying the Russian army was a fearsome modern fighting force?
If this war keeps going for years, all these theories might be junk again.
 

Deadmanposting

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And not for nothing, I have been reading reports on the families of dead Russian soldiers.
These are very young men dying out there - one guy was the local "Mr Computer" who'd fix any tech problem in the village for free - I presume it was a lot of turning it off and turning it back on again, but he was loved and important to his community
And all his family want to talk about his all these imaginary nazis in the Ukraine.

The people in a lot of Ukraine have it far worse, but all this loss of Putin's own people for a bunch of lies and utter madness.
So enervating.
 

flashback

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All that said, these are all theories chasing a story that's happened
Where were these expert lads when the world was saying the Russian army was a fearsome modern fighting force?
If this war keeps going for years, all these theories might be junk again.

to be fair there were a couple of lectures myself and possibly @nuke terrorist posted up by a Political Realist lad who said precisely this would happen (John Mearsheimer? it's in here somewhere). But I think prefixed it with something along the lines of "Putin's much too clever to do it".

Don't have it to hand.
 

nuke terrorist

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to be fair there were a couple of lectures myself and possibly @nuke terrorist posted up by a Political Realist lad who said precisely this would happen (John Mearsheimer? it's in here somewhere). But I think prefixed it with something along the lines of "Putin's much too clever to do it".

Don't have it to hand.
Deadmanposting posted this 'realist' video before and I think he also pointed out that it's largely similar to Chomsky's view of things.
definitely worth a listen. Mearsheimer and Pozner who I mentioned also agreed on the key points IMO.
EDIT:
none of them thought Putin would even consider invading.
 

JohnnyRaz

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bono's on the case

''Irish rock group U2’s frontman Bono and his bandmate The Edge performed a 40-minute concert in a metro station in Kyiv on Sunday and praised Ukrainians fighting for their freedom.

“This evening, 8th of May, shots will ring out in the Ukraine sky, but you’ll be free at last. They can take your lives, but they can never take your pride,” Bono said''
 

GARYXKNIFEDX

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bono's on the case

''Irish rock group U2’s frontman Bono and his bandmate The Edge performed a 40-minute concert in a metro station in Kyiv on Sunday and praised Ukrainians fighting for their freedom.

“This evening, 8th of May, shots will ring out in the Ukraine sky, but you’ll be free at last. They can take your lives, but they can never take your pride,” Bono said''
Opportunity missed.
 

magicbastarder

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did he actually sing that or say it?
bono also said in kyiv that he wanted to run, he wanted to hide; he wanted to take shelter from the poison rain, where the street names have been blown off by bombs.
 

Scientician 0.8

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Russia apparently didn't do all too well in Georgia in '08 but their now apparent weaknesses were less of an issue in such an asymmetrical war.

In contrast, Ukraine has been preparing to fight this war by among other things learning from Azerbaijani tactics in the 2020 Artsakh War around the use of drones versus tanks and other heavy vehicles.
 

GO

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Thank fuck it was exhausting I can only take so much nuclear holocaust speculation
 

therealjohnny

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bono's on the case

''Irish rock group U2’s frontman Bono and his bandmate The Edge performed a 40-minute concert in a metro station in Kyiv on Sunday and praised Ukrainians fighting for their freedom.

“This evening, 8th of May, shots will ring out in the Ukraine sky, but you’ll be free at last. They can take your lives, but they can never take your pride,” Bono said''
I'm still cringing at this.
 

rettucs

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The war has really been downgraded in the news coverage over the last few weeks.
Most of the regular things are getting a bigger billing again now.
only over in these parts. Its still top billing in most of mainland and eastern europe.

Yesterday Latvia unilaterally decided to cancel an accord with Russia whereby they would maintain the upkeep of soviet monuments around the country. The reason being, one of these monuments had become a focal point for pro-Russian protests and support over the past few weeks. For the russian may 9 independence day, thousands came and lay flowers. That night the local council cleared them all with a JCB. Needless to say the roosky lads weren't happy so laid a tonne more flowers the following day. Back came the JCB, by which point the roosky lot were starting to threaten violence. So they closed off the memorial and have now voted to demolish it.
 

rettucs

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I should also add that someone started a crowdfunder to pay for the demolition. Its raised quite a lot of money for what is a pretty poor country.

 

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