The Queen (1 Viewer)

[Lili Marlene]

It's a pity rep doesn't exist any more, because Cormcolash, you deserve such a de-repping for
casually insulting the memory of all victims of actual fascism. On a messageboard. You monster.

!gloat

Says the guy posting on a messageboard.

If it's so unimportant then why take the time out of your day to point it out?

BAH

Ireland = shit at being a fascist state. Not saying we're not, just saying we're really bad at it. I mean, look at this messageboard , operating from Ireland and allowing anti-fascists to post freely. Wouldn't happen in a decent fascist state.

 

[Lili Marlene]

ah lads, yer just lettin the brits win with all this rowin

that's how it starts

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diarmait_Mac_Murchada

800 years and it was our own stupid fault

 

[Denny Oubidoux]

I don't understand why Pete isn't deleting some of these posts and disappearing the people who posted them from the boards

 

[SomethingManic]

Because this isn't Boards.ie

 

[Cormcolash]

Here's how this thread develops:

I call Ireland fascist

Be The Hokey disagrees

I point out how Ireland is fascist, giving basis for a definition and providing relevant material to support myself

Be The Hokey asks to point out a country that doesn't operate on fascist principles

I (jokingly, actually) point out Iceland - when the shit hit the fan there, the police force joined the people in protest and the government collapsed - still, I wouldn't really consider Iceland to operate on non-fascist principles right now, only their President protected them from getting fucked by politicians once again in the last referendum there.

Rather than provide any actual evidence of any kind to try and back up their own arguments, Be The Hokey is joined by two more mongos whose whole argument is to accuse me of insulting atrocity victims or some such utter nonsense. Obviously these people know so little about the subject they have waded in on that they still consider fascism to require some sort of massacre in order to be defined - which of course is total nonsense.
The 'argument' against me disintegrates into invective, hyperbole, vituperation, and polemic. The people involved present no evidence to try and justify their castigation, instead contenting themselves with agreeing with each other, as if that qualifies as some form of confirmation of right. I wouldn't be surprised if they are calling me a nazi soon - after all, they clearly have no real understanding of what they are talking about, and this seems to be the logical extrapolation of their current model.

Enda Kenny would be proud of these lads; the response is very similar to his response to Joe Higgins in the Dail, which was to disgracefully label him as a supporter of Osama Bin Laden as it was the only way he could actually avoid dealing with the arguments Higgins presented.

In conclusion, if your argument essentially consists of nothing but name-calling, you're better off just keeping your mouth shut really, otherwise all you are going to do is make yourself look fucking stupid like Taubstumm and St.Fechin have just managed to do.

 

[St. Fechin]

Hey Cormcolash, I was mocking taubstumm. Whatever about Ireland being a fascist state or not, I thought his post was OTT.

 

[taubstumm]

Hey Cormcolash, I was mocking taubstumm. Whatever about Ireland being a fascist state or not, I thought his post was OTT.

well, cormcolash's stupidity irritated me so much that i wrote an easily-parodied post

so it goes

live by the sword, die by the sword

 

[Jerry Twig]

Cormac, you're a funny man!
I simply asked you to point to one state where you feel the police serves the people first and all you can come up with is Iceland 'jokingly'. So let's try again.
Seriously, one state. Or am I to understand that you think every state on earth is fascist?.
PS - I thought 'fascism' was a political nationalist ideology. You don't seem to factor that into your definition at all, or am I just being unreasonable again?

 

[Cormcolash]

Hey Cormcolash, I was mocking taubstumm. Whatever about Ireland being a fascist state or not, I thought his post was OTT.

Ah right, fair dos then, apologies for lumping you in there

 

[St. Fechin]

well, cormcolash's stupidity irritated me so much that i wrote an easily-parodied post

so it goes

live by the sword, die by the sword

So it goes

The mighty sword of I is John has already put me in my place.

 

[Carlow Punks!]

Yes, Cormoclash, this thread is all about you

FACISTS!!!

 

[taubstumm]

So it goes

The mighty sword of I is John has already put me in my place.

who would've thought that arguing on the internet is pointless and exasperating?

 

[Jerry Twig]

Yes, Cormoclash, this thread is all about you

FACISTS!!!

Ha, I've been thinking I've been arguing with Rick as well!

 

[Cormcolash]

Seriously, one state. Or am I to understand that you think every state on earth is fascist?.

The nature of global capitalism has brought us to the point where pretty much every nation on earth is run in a fascist manner - it seems that the fundamental nature of society when functioning in a capitalist system is for the group/party/whatever with more power to impose their will on the other people living within the state through the use of a police force which actually operates more like a private army. Otherwise, that group will lose power. Capitalism essentially imposes and profits off a struggle between conflicting ideologies, as those in favour of the system and those who react against the system are generally both forced to utilise a police force as a private army in order to suppress the other side, depending upon who is in charge of course. This ongoing struggle pretty much necessitates governments to act in fascist manners, no matter what the ideology of the government may be - a look at any of the main 'socialist' states around the world confirms this, and in fact fascism is usually more overt in these states as they are struggling against the dominant political, social, economic system.
Naturally, the actions of the police are justified by 'compliance with the law'; however, the laws are almost always made by previous generations of the same factions, or those very factions themselves, and therefore only serve to consolidate their own grasp on power. Ireland right now is a perfect example of this - despite the crimes committed by politicians, bankers, and property developers over the last 15 years or so, they basically remain above the law, because the laws are structured to punish the poorest in society, rather than the people who make them.

PS - I thought 'fascism' was a political nationalist ideology. You don't seem to factor that into your definition at all, or am I just being unreasonable again?

Fascism is usually considered as an ideology, but it definitely can't be restricted to a 'nationalist' ideology, as mentioned above. However, nationalism, or to be more exact, the idea of a nation or a state or a country as a self-contained entity, is largely responsible for the implementation of fascism, as most of the aforementioned laws are originally designed to 'protect citizens of the country'.
There is as a result an enforcement of national identity upon any citizens living within a country - again, Ireland is a good example with the recent census form, which comes with the threat of 'fill this form in or we will fine you x-thousand euros' - the law really is designed to force people to consider themselves part of a nation so that they can then be exploited by the capitalist system which governs that nation.

I chose as my definition what I see as almost always the most overt evidence of the above mechanisms - the enforcing of 'the law' by a police force which is controlled by and serves the government, rather than an independent police force which protects and serves the people they identify themselves with. That brings it all back to my initial point - of the current measures being put in place in Dublin City Centre as just more evidence of Ireland as a fascist state, through harassment of citizens by a police force serving a government which has decided "We're having the Queen over for a visit, we're spending €20 million of the state's money on this, and we don't give a fuck what anyone thinks about it - but if you demonstrate against it, we'll make sure to shut you up"

 

[Carlow Punks!]

Oh, Hi Jane!

 

[ITalkShite]

The nature of global capitalism has brought us to the point where pretty much every nation on earth is run in a fascist manner - it seems that the fundamental nature of society when functioning in a capitalist system is for the group/party/whatever with more power to impose their will on the other people living within the state through the use of a police force which actually operates more like a private army. Otherwise, that group will lose power. Capitalism essentially imposes and profits off a struggle between conflicting ideologies, as those in favour of the system and those who react against the system are generally both forced to utilise a police force as a private army in order to suppress the other side, depending upon who is in charge of course. This ongoing struggle pretty much necessitates governments to act in fascist manners, no matter what the ideology of the government may be - a look at any of the main 'socialist' states around the world confirms this, and in fact fascism is usually more overt in these states as they are struggling against the dominant political, social, economic system.
Naturally, the actions of the police are justified by 'compliance with the law'; however, the laws are almost always made by previous generations of the same factions, or those very factions themselves, and therefore only serve to consolidate their own grasp on power. Ireland right now is a perfect example of this - despite the crimes committed by politicians, bankers, and property developers over the last 15 years or so, they basically remain above the law, because the laws are structured to punish the poorest in society, rather than the people who make them.
Fascism is usually considered as an ideology, but it definitely can't be restricted to a 'nationalist' ideology, as mentioned above. However, nationalism, or to be more exact, the idea of a nation or a state or a country as a self-contained entity, is largely responsible for the implementation of fascism, as most of the aforementioned laws are originally designed to 'protect citizens of the country'.
There is as a result an enforcement of national identity upon any citizens living within a country - again, Ireland is a good example with the recent census form, which comes with the threat of 'fill this form in or we will fine you x-thousand euros' - the law really is designed to force people to consider themselves part of a nation so that they can then be exploited by the capitalist system which governs that nation.
I chose as my definition what I see as almost always the most overt evidence of the above mechanisms - the enforcing of 'the law' by a police force which is controlled by and serves the government, rather than an independent police force which protects and serves the people they identify themselves with. That brings it all back to my initial point - of the current measures being put in place in Dublin City Centre as just more evidence of Ireland as a fascist state, through harassment of citizens by a police force serving a government which has decided "We're having the Queen over for a visit, we're spending €20 million of the state's money on this, and we don't give a fuck what anyone thinks about it - but if you demonstrate against it, we'll make sure to shut you up"

Yeah man, totally.

 

[Denny Oubidoux]

I don't know if I'd be into the guards deciding for themselves what deserves defending. If the guards decided not to defend the queen while she is here or not to defend the shell site in mayo what would happen then? it'd be a bit like a coup, they'd be overriding the decisions of the elected govt, I'm not sure that they're really prepared or suitable for taking over. I'd say they wouldn't have a clue what to do next

 

[SomethingManic]

We should take over Donegal, and rebuild civilisation from scratch.

 

[ann post]

there is nothing wrong with being fashionable.

 

[Jerry Twig]

Corma, I appreciate that you went to all that effort to explain your view. I'd disagree with your interpretation on so many turns but I'm not going to respond to all of it cos this will go forever and I don't think it's a good use of anyone's time, but let me just say that what you are describing is not fascism. There are certain core criteria that apply to any term that give it meaning. One in relation to fascism is that it is a political ideology rooted in the notion of national superiority. None of the main political parties in Ireland espouse this ideology. Another fundamental tenet of fascism is single party rule. No Irish parties advocate for single party rule and Ireland is currently a multi-party system. It is therefore not a fascist state Cormac.