The animated discussion on the merits (or lack thereof) of Australia thread (1 Viewer)

nuke terrorist

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Rules are rules mate. Don't care who you are.
you would think Djokovic would be used to getting injections - not joking either.
they must par the course for elite athletes in many sports. tennis has a history of really substandard anti doping measures.
 

flashback

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you would think Djokovic would be used to getting injections - not joking either.
they must par the course for elite athletes in many sports. tennis has a history of really substandard anti doping measures.
I'd guess Djokovic doesn't want to get vax'd for exactly the same reason the likes of Sagan doesn't.

Because it knocks a % or two off their performance, and that's their livelihood. They make no money if they aren't able to perform at an elite level, humans can only perform at an elite level for a few years, both of these guys are on the tail of that.

Not really judging either way, but in a way it's totally rational. It's not like they might as well be dead as vaccinated, but they might as well be retired. And they don't want to retire just yet.

If their job weren't operating daily on the edges of what's humanly possible, then I'd guess they'd take the vaccine. But they know their career is hanging by a thread, there's likely literally months left where they can be competitive, and they're having that. Vaccinate afterwards when they are retired.
 

Benny Cake

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Not really judging either way, but in a way it's totally rational. It's not like they might as well be dead as vaccinated, but they might as well be retired. And they don't want to retire just yet.
It’s not rational because all assessments to date show it’s not true. If it even did knock a % or two off, it’s for a few days, no more than a common cold, then recovery.

“WADA maintains athletes should have no hesitation in taking the vaccine with all research and data showing inoculation will have absolutely no impact on performance.” etc Olympics: Some athletes will resist COVID-19 vaccination, says USOPC medical chief
 

flashback

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It’s not rational because all assessments to date show it’s not true. If it even did knock a % or two off, it’s for a few days, no more than a common cold, then recovery.
100% not the case.

Moderately adverse effects to the vaccine are common. In my case my temperature hit ~41C before I was able to get it back under control (ie less than 40C) at which point I though "huh I wonder should I call an ambulance" and went unconscious for about 4 hours.

For about 7 days my leg muscles were bollixed, it was about 2 weeks before I felt together enough to get back into the sea (which I'd been doing every day since march up until that point).

So, definitely, 100%, not a common cold in all cases. And, even if it were guaranteed to be no more than a common cold, even then that's something a professional athlete is likely simply not going to accept.
 

nuke terrorist

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a lot of cyclists won't take antibiotics I am told?
the generally reason given is a drop in performance for a week or two?

I better point out I am not an athlete and haven't had a bad illness for at least 15 years.

any other reasons why an elite sports person wouldn't get vaccinated?
I got left behind in the doping knowledge stakes after Lance got nailed.
 

flashback

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Dunno. I'd likely not take antibiotics unless I basically had to. A course of Abs is going to knock your microbiome for months.

It's hard to overstate how unlike other people pros athletes are. They are profoundly selfish. They do not give a fuck about basically everything other than their body. I'm just talking about journeymen, pro-conti riders. Everything is about themselves, all of the time. Even the level of thought focused on keeping your selfishness on point is impressive.
Second, physically they're nothing like normal people. Normal people can generate maybe 100W for something like 10 mins, these guys can sit at 300W for hours. An elite runner can cruise, sitting at a pulse of 120bpm, faster than you can run.

There's almost no commonality. Physically they are completely different, psychologically they are regularly lunatics (to the extent if you take away their sport they end up dead soon after).

So you're dealing with something that doesn't think like you do, and doesn't respond physically to things the way you do either. And they know at any moment they can get a cough, or an injury, and that can put an end to a season, or a career. And they have a handful of seasons to make money, after which they have nothing.

So, yeah, agree or no, I can see why they'd behave this way.
 

Benny Cake

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100% not the case.
I presume you mean “not 100% the case”? Let me rephrase to be clear. Of course there are a minority of cases where the adverse reactions are more prolonged, but even in those rarer cases you will recover to the point where your athletic performance is equal. The entire Liverpool team is vaccinated f9r example, there were no after effects equivalent to yours among the first team (would seem par by the stats) and no dip in form that anyone has spoken of.
The point is that any individual athlete can get vaccinated directly after any major tournament,in normal rest time, and even in the worst case scenario will recover in time for the next major tournament.
 

magicbastarder

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the point is, if there's a 2% chance you're going to be affected for a few weeks, and your livelihood depends on being 1% fitter than your next nearest rival, that's going to make people wary when they're earning millions.
my wife has been just ever so slightly off colour since getting her booster - a week before christmas, and has a friend in the same boat.
 

Unicron

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any other reasons why an elite sports person wouldn't get vaccinated?
I got left behind in the doping knowledge stakes after Lance got nailed.
Apparently in the PL a lot of the vaccine hesitancy is influenced by bro-science locker room talk about how it impacts your virility.
 

rettucs

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a lot of cyclists won't take antibiotics I am told?
the generally reason given is a drop in performance for a week or two?

I better point out I am not an athlete and haven't had a bad illness for at least 15 years.

any other reasons why an elite sports person wouldn't get vaccinated?
I got left behind in the doping knowledge stakes after Lance got nailed.
isnt it the same as taking antibiotics and being on the booze - as in, they won't work. So dopers not gonna bother with antibiotics in case they interfere with their doping or, at best, won't work in the first place.

I havent seen much about cyclists and vaccines, other than just before the Olympics when lots of them were posting about getting their shots before flying out to Japan. Andrew Talansky is the outlier, but he's just batshit crazy. There's certainly nothing to suggest that there's an anti-vax sentiment in the pro peloton.

I thought soccer was the one sport where there were a lot of outspoken anti-vaxxers, though that might have just been overplayed by the tabloid media.
 

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God, imagine if they got COVID.

yeah, that's the game they're playing.
That's why I picked Sagan up there, he's gone and got himself infected again.

Like, ok, to be clear, I'm not saying I think they made the right decision, or that I agree with them. I'm trying to say that pro athletes are a weird bunch and their priorities are not like other people's, and if you put yourself in that perspective their decisions can seem much more rational.

They'll take massive risks with themselves, including potentially catching covid, including taking potentially cancer inducing drugs having just cleared cancer, in order to get what they feel is an edge on opponents.
 

nuke terrorist

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Djokovic's Dad was on TV ranting in last half hour telling all 7 billion of us to rise up about this injustice!
unfortunately he's anti vaccine.

as far as Lance goes, he has admitted himself that taking growth hormone when he had testicular cancer was not a good move.
 

ann post

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A mate was saying in Novax's part of the world the doctor is somewhere you go when you are going to die and there is a cultural thing with that which makes the idea of everyone going to the doctor for a little prick seem completely alien. That said we are still in a world where if you want to go somewhere, covid or not, you jump through whatever hoops they like or you don't go.

The soccer players are essentially tories with shorts. From age 16 they don't have to make one adult decision and granted they are talented but also there will be fixers constantly floating around in these million euro babies lives making sure they only really have to think about football.
 

Unicron

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I thought soccer was the one sport where there were a lot of outspoken anti-vaxxers, though that might have just been overplayed by the tabloid media.
English football has a much lower rate than other european leagues.

Other european leagues have also not been canceling fixtures left right and centre in the past month.
 

Cormcolash

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I'd guess Djokovic doesn't want to get vax'd for exactly the same reason the likes of Sagan doesn't.

Because it knocks a % or two off their performance, and that's their livelihood. They make no money if they aren't able to perform at an elite level, humans can only perform at an elite level for a few years, both of these guys are on the tail of that.

Not really judging either way, but in a way it's totally rational. It's not like they might as well be dead as vaccinated, but they might as well be retired. And they don't want to retire just yet.

If their job weren't operating daily on the edges of what's humanly possible, then I'd guess they'd take the vaccine. But they know their career is hanging by a thread, there's likely literally months left where they can be competitive, and they're having that. Vaccinate afterwards when they are retired.
Tell that to Joshua Kimmich
 

Benny Cake

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I’m trying to say that pro athletes are a weird bunch and their priorities are not like other people's, and if you put yourself in that perspective their decisions can seem much more rational.
If you put yourself in the mind of an irrational person, then their irrationality can seem more rational. Got it!
 

nuke terrorist

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part of press conference with Djokovic's Dad.

to say this is attitude typical of Serb people is nonsense.
anti Serb racism in the western media was widespread in the 1990's and 2000's.
 

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