Syria (1 Viewer)

[Evil_g]

No idea at all?

For real?

Hating the Iraq war does not mean giving Assad a pass here. The situations are completely different.

Well apart from "Because Cameron said so".

Who would benefit from such an act? Most reports suggested that Assad was winning the civil war. He would have known the consequences of deploying chemical weapons. He would have desired to avoid giving the US and UK an excuse to get involved.

It would not make sense to do so.

There are many other parties for whom it would be very convenient if he did so. Not least the people who are telling us that he did, such as David Cameron and John Kerry.

Last week there was a lot of doubt being expressed as to who was responsible for these actions.

This week the debate has moved on to Assad did this so we must invade Syria.

I don't know how we've gotten from a state of doubt as to who was responsible to a state of certainty that Assad was responsible. I have seen no new information.

So, yes I am for real.

You're the one talking about dropping bombs on people, y'know, killing them, or maybe just blowing their legs off, so I'd like to at least know why?

 

[7 - No tomorrow]

Invade? Who's talking about invading anywhere?

The case for ironclad evidence seems to be being made by those that are against bombing in any circumstance.

 

[Evil_g]

Invade? Who's talking about invading anywhere?

The case for ironclad evidence seems to be being made by those that are against bombing in any circumstance.

I'm not against bombing in any circumstances. Nor am I requesting ironclad evidence.

Just asking if there's any evidence at all.

 

[hydromancer]

Here is a bizarre case...

Basically the Daily Mail claimed in January of this year that the U.S was (with the help of some people in England) going to supply chemical gas to Syria to be used on Syrian people and then claim that Assad it done as an excuse to invade the country !

The story is below, The Daily Mail and The Gaurdian..

http://www.theguardian.com/media/2013/jun/26/daily-mail-syrian-chemical-weapons-libel

"The Daily Mail has apologised and paid £110,000 in libel damages to a London defence firm it wrongly linked with an alleged chemical weaponsplot in Syria."

"The claimants had no involvement in any chemical weapons plot and would never contemplate becoming involved in the heinous activities which were the subject of the article."

Daily Mail publisher Associated Newspapers agreed the six-figure libel settlement after accepting that the emails were fabricated and that the allegation of a chemical weapons plot was untrue.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/article-2311199/Britam-Defence-David-Goulding-Philip-Doughty.html

http://www.britamdefence.com/

 

[hydromancer]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/08/28/us-syria-crisis-europe-idUSBRE97R0N220130828

Anyway i dont know anything really but here is suposed a video of someone (non Syrian army) fireing a gas a shell place looks completly fucked generally.

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[7 - No tomorrow]

Is the contention that the US would fake a gas attack so it would be forced into a war that it has no clear interest in and certainly no stomach or exit strategy for?

The very best result could be hoped for here is that we bomb him to the negotiation table.
Even that seems lofty right now.

Still gotta retaliate against anyone using gas. Gotta.

 

[7 - No tomorrow]

Fucking hell, the Commons voted it down.

Fucking Bush queering things from beyond the grave.

 

[Denny Oubidoux]

Is the contention that the US would fake a gas attack so it would be forced into a war that it has no clear interest in and certainly no stomach or exit strategy for?

I've no view on these theories at all but there is some US interest in ousting Assad in that he's an important ally of Iran - it'd weaken Iran even more. I've no idea if that's the plan or not, just saying, since we're hammering out this matter so comprehensively here.

 

[hydromancer]

Is the contention that the US would fake a gas attack so it would be forced into a war that it has no clear interest in and certainly no stomach or exit strategy for?

Ah i am not sure what to make of that myself i would take it with a big pinch of salt and i proberbly shoudnt have even posted it. But why should i beleive France Uk and the US ? There are strong claims that it was the rebels that used the gas and i dont think that is impossibile. Hopefully it will be investigated and gotten to the bottom of.

By the way some Irish troops are to be sent out there
http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0716/462886-syria-defence-forces/

Here is another interesting report on the RTE blog which i cant really make head nor tale of but it is interesting !
http://rt.com/news/rebel-tunnel-damascus-chemical-940/

Here is Russias take on it who are sending there own ship down into the med along with the English and American ones.
http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0710/461572-syria-conflict-assad/

But supposedly any kind of UN action needs the consent of all five of these countries France Russia China UK and the U.S. If one of those power's in the UN decides against it then any action taken would be completely illegal.

Personally i am not sure if any intervention should happen i think it is to late for that now i think it would only increase and prolong the violence. But i am not an expert !

 

[therealjohnny]

If only he hadn't pretended to be a cat on tv

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[therealjohnny]

Intriguing

As everyone seems to think, it would be pretty unbelievable for the US or their buddies to stage such an attack but something sure is fishy

maybe these guys have the answer

http://rabble.ie/2013/08/29/syria-an-inconvenient-truth-may-emerge/

 

[hydromancer]

That above case was completely disproved by the way the supposed hacked email's in which the story was based were show to be fabricated.

 

[ann post]

Is the contention that the US would fake a gas attack so it would be forced into a war that it has no clear interest in...

well, besides the big oil pipe that runs from iraq into the Mediterranean sea.

 

[hydromancer]

Generally about American goverment policy even though i could make some crazy paranoid conspiracy theory i will say that they are the biggest arms producing nation on the face of the earth an industry which has sky rocketed in the last decade.
And even if you consider other countries military budgets they are often provided for by the U.S for intance they have made a ten billion deal with with Israel, Saudi Arabia and UAE this year alone "The United States sold Saudi Arabia 84 F-15 jets for $29 billion in 2010"
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/04/19/us-usa-mideast-arms-idUSBRE93I13Y20130419
Besides the fact that they will account for over a third of wordls military spending themselves alone.

Scince 1948 the U.S goverment has given over 30 billion in aid to Pakistan http://www.theguardian.com/global-development/poverty-matters/2011/jul/11/us-aid-to-pakistan

So basically more security = more guns !

Anyway Russia are definitely opposed and China also have said it wants a negotiated way out not to mention they have lost the support of the UK and also that Iran has said no way. Germany supports a strike i think.
So i have the feeling Obama would be for it but i am not sure it would be for the best.


Here is a model of one of the ships that Russia will send down there....

 

[hydromancer]

Anyway im not qualified to comment on any of this stuff
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/08/30/us-syria-crisis-barracks-idUSBRE97T0N820130830
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23908846

 

[hydromancer]

Anyway we will know this Monday what the American goverment will do on the matter. There senate will reconvene on that day and it will put to vote fairly quickly.

 

[hydromancer]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_current_United_States_Senators

 

[hydromancer]

Some interesting statements by the Syrian opposition in London today (Thursday 5th)
Channel 4 news, Title "Britain's continuing aid to Syria"
http://www.channel4.com/news/catch-up/

 

[pete]

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[Scientician 0.8]

Well I've got to the point in my life where I haven't a pup's notion where this would be good or bad, please help.