Special Donald appears fucked. (1 Viewer)

JohnnyRaz

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I suppose I'm mainly interested in what's going on in people's heads away from here. Not necessarily any one event.

It seems to me that for instance with the Brexit stuff Ireland is staying fairly removed and watching England screw things up quite badly, saying things here and there but waiting for the axe to fall pretty much.

And maybe that's the same with what's going on here: tired of listening to the bullshit, waiting for an outcome. Mostly this is what I'm seeing above.

I have this feeling that the situation right now is different and something historic is going on, an actual big deal as opposed to blow jobs and break-ins.
Like this point is the dividing point, either the US (continues) to irretrievably fall into a kleptocracy run by autocrats, or it takes a significant step back. That we're just on the edge of a historic point.

Whether or not you think the US is a haven and breeding ground of spoilt racist cunts or the land of the free or something in between; it does matter.

And that now the place will change fundamentally, either it doesn't prosecute a criminal leadership and the pretense of not being a kleptocracy carries on full gas, or it does. Like, can they half measure it? Can they pull an Obama and say let's just make a compromise here and pretend things are fine?
I feel like they can't, that this is different. But I'm not in a good position to be able to tell.

I think most of you don't, so I'll relax about it maybe.
the thing is, while the donald isnt a direct product (he's more of an accidental consequence) of a long running attempt to direct public opinion (or a segment thereof) towards acceptance of a set of values antethical to the interests of the majority of Americans, his spectacular failure will not set that programme of work back - indeed with pence in place the approach will be colder and driven by a more consistent purer ideology.

I'm not sure what the break point would be that would turn 30-40% of American opinion against the ideals of the capitalist libertarians/tea party/god botherer set at this stage.
 

Lili Marlene

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Without wanting to fall into internet cliché I suppose you're talking about the last days of neoliberalism, we can't go back to Obama-era pretend everything is fine while drone-bombing the world and deporting everyone (as i've seen argued, deportations are actually down under Trump because the Dems are resisting him, something they never did to Obama)

I think it's similar with Brexit, as things look now they might manage to cancel Brexit, but that energy isn't going away. People live shit lives and watch as the richer grow richer, either you ignore them and they join the likes of Tommy Robinson who actually sees their unhappiness and channels it into racism or you do something about it yourself.
 

flashback

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If you look at what he's said though, he's said that the US is being run by a shadowy cabal of self serving invisible people. That money buys you these people and therefore power. That these people do not think at all about the lives of Real Americans. That these people are literally rampant murdering paedophilic criminals and they will *never* get caught or face any consequences.

And he's putting it to the US by himself being the most extreme version of a caricature of corruption, demonstrating the case beyond doubt, and asking are they going to resolve this? Or do they allow it. In either case the pretense is over, there will never be a more crystallised scenario to bring things back from the brink.

So that's his long game maybe. One last attempt to save the US; 3D chess all along.
 

Lili Marlene

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If you look at what he's said though, he's said that the US is being run by a shadowy cabal of self serving invisible people. That money buys you these people and therefore power. That these people do not think at all about the lives of Real Americans.
I'm not unconvinced by this argument.

That these people are literally rampant murdering paedophilic criminals and they will *never* get caught or face any consequences.
Wellll.... ok. That's more of a British thing, but I dunno, Jeffrey Epstein is more or less doing fine.

he's putting it to the US by himself being the most extreme version of a caricature of corruption, demonstrating the case beyond doubt, and asking are they going to resolve this? Or do they allow it. In either case the pretense is over, there will never be a more crystallised scenario to bring things back from the brink.
True.

So that's his long game maybe. One last attempt to save the US; 3D chess all along.
I would say he hasn't a clue what he's doing.
 

hermie

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The politics whatsapp group is all a-flutter these days with Mueller and how he's taking care of business. Everyone else is just bored of Trump at this stage. There's nothing newsworthy about the latest sacking/handing in of notice or revelation because everyone just assumes the worst about him.

Really curious to know your opinion of Bernie Sanders. Does he stand a chance of a) getting the nomination this time and b) beating Trump or whomever else?
 

Lili Marlene

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flashback

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What do you lot think of Beto O'Rourke?
I mean, he's the usual story. Very pleasant seeming, decent enough pinko credentials, intelligent, would more than likely not pick a shower of out-and-out gangsters to staff his administration, not a Clinton. There doesn't seem to be all that much not to like.

The problem is it does appear hard to get things done as POTUS unless you're scary manipulative, insanely pig headed, or Marvin the robot intelligent.

I think Obama is very very intelligent. I'm not sure how he compares to Marvin, but he's quite a lot brighter than the likes of say... me. *And* he's charismatic as fuck, *and* I think he generally had good intentions, but his presidency was tricky enough going. A fair number of bad things went on under the Obama presidency. So, Is Beto more betterer? More clever? More charismatic? I dunno. I'm not sure that he's more intelligent, but he might be a better human being. I can't really tell.

The issue is I think, you need to be a nefarious fuck and pure to the level of having a disorder to be a "good" POTUS. And I don't think that even Beto knows if he's got it until he gives it a go.

You could do what my branch seem to be doing and mumbling something about "oh... well, he'd do a better job than these gobshites we hired a while back do", but that's obviously not relevant. There are plants that would do a better job than the current crew.
 

flashback

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Thanks for this. I just read it.

I'm not sure I'd say it's damning. It's not the greatest alright.
I think I'd probably agree with it though. It's like Townes van Zandt said:


Your back ain't strong enough
For burdens doublefold
They'd crush you down
Down into nothin.

Being US president isn't easy. You've got phalanxes of dickheads trying to grift everything in sight. Some even have political agendas and beliefs. The article seems to be suggesting he's crumbling a little on what he thinks is right or wrong already, and he's campaigning.

So yeah. Not great.
 

Lili Marlene

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Thanks for this. I just read it.

I'm not sure I'd say it's damning. It's not the greatest alright.
I think I'd probably agree with it though. It's like Townes van Zandt said:


Your back ain't strong enough
For burdens doublefold
They'd crush you down
Down into nothin.

Being US president isn't easy. You've got phalanxes of dickheads trying to grift everything in sight. Some even have political agendas and beliefs. The article seems to be suggesting he's crumbling a little on what he thinks is right or wrong already, and he's campaigning.

So yeah. Not great.
The current affairs articleits links to is MUCH more damning.Their take seems to be that Beto is just a cosy with wall street pre-Trump era Democrat and voting for him is trying to step back into a past where daddy Obama was in charge and he never did anything wrong. Magical thinking.
 

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