Sexism, god help us (3 Viewers)

[therealjohnny]

What about the time last year where I was walking home on my own and came upon this girl in the middle of a square who was kind of spiralling around out of her head and barely able to stand up, so I had to find out where she lived (which was difficult) which was only a minute walk away, had to walk her there, had to practically carry her up 3 flights of stairs, had to open her door for her and carry her to her bed and lay her on it, then get some water to make sure she was alright and hopefully wouldn't like stop breathing or some shit during the night, before I got to go home?
That was okay, right?

You're a hero. If she'd woken up to find you in her flat you could be writing that from jail, but to me you're a hero.

 

[Squiggle]

Really? Fucking hell

FWIW I've realised me being a bit aghast at hearing about this stuff might be taken to imply that I'm disbelieving. That's not what I mean to do at all, I've just literally never come across it before. Mrs. egg_ has never been catcalled (while in Ireland), never followed or groped ... tbh there aren't that many other women in my life, so it hasn't been obvious to me how untypical her experience is

I can understand, if you haven't encountered it, it is difficult to digest how common it is - and it is very common. Of the four women who posted on this page recently all four of us have been on the receiving end of sexually threatening behaviour. We've been groped by strangers in bars or night clubs, we've been followed down the street by men who think we should be flattered by their attentions and become angry and agressive when we don't want to take them up on their offers. My debs date tried to rape me, thankfully I was sober and he wasn't much bigger or stronger than I was so I was able to fend him off and get away, but he was dumbfounded when I turned down his later invitations to cinema dates.

One guy I worked with (mostly male work environment 4 women including me and 40 men) was totally incapable of seeing where the boundary was, even in work. He was so sleazy it was almost funny, but it wasn't funny. He sent disgusting sexual "joke" emails to us and if we asked him to stop he told us we had no sense of humour, or needed to lighten up, or that he was just trying to be friendly. Thankfully there were some really good guys there and when the four of us finally mentioned it to them one evening when he wasn't around they started to police him, and when that failed we eventually reported him to HR. Thing is, we didn't want to get him fired, he WAS otherwise a nice guy, and good at his job... but he just didn't see anything wrong with what he was doing.

One night out with all my colleagues I accidentally broke a different co-worker's foot after he tried to hit on me, refused to accept my requests that he kept his hands to himself and then started yelling abuse at me and accusing me of being involved with several of our other co-workers... because it couldn't be that I just wasn't interested in him... no... not possible. When he kept trying to grab me after I'd moved away from him several times I stamped on his instep. Much to my embarrassment, but also to my benefit, most of my colleagues had witnessed the entire thing, and several had tried to get him to leave me alone (a few had also offered to take him outside for a "talking to" but I declined that offer) so when he came in on crutches he was quickly told that he got less than he deserved... but I still felt awful about it, and sick at the thought of how it would be dealt with if HR got involved.

The awful thing is that you get used to it. You get used to scanning a nightclub or bar for a male friend you trust who will be willing to be your boyfriend, cousin or brother for the night. You get used to being told you must have done something to encourage him, or that you must be somehow involved with the guy who just won't leave you alone.

I suspect that part of the reason that Mrs egg_ hasn't encountered behaviours like these is that she has been Mrs egg_ during the years when it is most likely to happen

 

[Squiggle]

Oh, and when I did turn down my would-be-rapist's date requests and he moaned to our mutual friends and acquaintances I had so many people asking me "Why won't you go out with X, he's a lovely guy?" Somehow "because he tried to rape me" isn't an answer you can easily give in that situation.

 

[nooleen]

they're just trying to help us beat our bioclocks

 

[jonah]

That's a horrible string of events @Squiggle; I'm really sorry that happened to you.

I've had very similar experiences myself, some serious that I don't feel overly comfortable discussing, but you're absolutely right in reiterating that this is not a minority situation.

The older I get the more the issue becomes harder to deny, I think when I was a teenager and not yet out on my own (i was a pretty introverted stay at home kind of kid), I really thought of these issues as back-alley exceptions, but its scary when you get to know other women as you get older, and you hear their stories, and unfortunately garner some of your own - you just realise the varying degree of abuse nearly all women have had to put up with in their lives. It's horrifying.

I was in a group of five girls recently, and we talked about a lot of these issues and it genuinely flabbergasted me to hear that four out of the five women had been raped, and the other one person there had a string of experiences that definitely constitute harassment. I think for the first time these conversations are opening up, and maybe the wider populous is actually starting to realise the gravity of what's happening and what's always happened. Its kind of blowing up, which is a good thing, even though the conversations its encouraging are difficult.

Like @Squiggle; said, historically these are issues that women have not been able to talk about - not only because when things like this happen to you, you sometimes feel the need to repress them, but also because culturally there's not a lot of support for victims of various types of harassment. For gods sake, the women making that street harassment video had to explicitly point out before her opinion was even worth listening to that she was wearing a crew neck and pants or whatever.

Anyway once again I sort of got away from the point, I think!

 

[nooleen]

no you're right on point there

although levity might be the wrong word

 

[jonah]

:-o i totally meant gravity!

 

[Squiggle]

For gods sake, the women making that street harassment video had to explicitly point out before her opinion was even worth listening to that she was wearing a crew neck and pants or whatever.

And that's just a tiny part of it, we have to justify our clothing choices, be careful who we smile at etc... because somehow if something bad happens to us it will be our fault.

I remember being followed home one night by a male acquaintance who kept intermittently catching up with me to tell me, or just screaming at me from about 10 m back, that I must have had an affair with a (different) married acquaintance because otherwise why would my married acquaintance have behaved the way he did in the pub? How was I to know why my married acquaintance behaved the way he did? (I wasn't entirely sure what he was supposed to have done that was so suspicious). I knew I hadn't had an affair with him, or anything approaching one, but apparently the other guy thought maybe I'd forgotten, and if he followed me home yelling about it maybe he'd jog my memory. Somewhat funny in hindsight, because I didn't come to any harm, but scary and unpleasant at the time.

 

[Reets]

"According to a 2013 global review of available data, 35 per cent of women worldwide have experienced either physical and/or sexual intimate partner violence or non-partner sexual violence. However, some national violence studies show that up to 70 per cent of women have experienced physical and/or sexual violence in their lifetime from an intimate partner - See more at: Facts and Figures: Ending Violence against Women | UN Women – Headquarters "

Between 40 and 50 per cent of women in European Union countries experience unwanted sexual advances, physical contact or other forms of sexual harassment at work [ - See more at: Facts and Figures: Ending Violence against Women | UN Women – Headquarters

That's 3 in 10 women assaulted, and that's just counting the ones in relationships.
Half the women you know have experienced harrasment in work, which you'd consider a safe place.

The crap that I mentioned earlier isn't considered a big deal, I got away each time.
People can complain that all men are being branded together and they would just mean it in a friendly way, but how are we to know that this wont be the time we get away safely.

I've been in dozens of different gay bars in a few different countries, and it doesnt seem to happen anywhere near the same extent there.
When it does, 9/10 it's straight guys thinking "Leave the dykes here and I'll show you what you're missing" (didn't get him very far) is the start of something special.
I've asked some of my male gay friends and they've said the same thing.

I don't bother with straight bars anymore. I'm tired of feeling like I need to dress a certain way so I'm not asking to be felt up by strangers.

 

[egg_]

I suspect that part of the reason that Mrs egg_ hasn't encountered behaviours like these is that she has been Mrs egg_ during the years when it is most likely to happen

You must be right - she says the only time she's been catcalled is in the UK, which we both had always thought was an English/Irish thing, but perhaps it's cos I was living in a different city at the time

 

[Moods For Mallards]

I didn't mean to post in here but it's a very interesting thread, vg.

 

[nooleen]

Blah blah

aw, i just came back to rate your post 'winner'

 

[Moods For Mallards]

aw, i just came back to rate your post 'winner'

The blah blah was out of context, it was hanging around in the reply box since yesterday, whereupon I accidentally hit post. Carry on.

 

[Cormcolash]

You're a hero. If she'd woken up to find you in her flat you could be writing that from jail, but to me you're a hero.

I actually had to think about kipping on the floor, because she seemed on the verge of puking and I was thinking what if she was to puke and choke on her puke in her sleep or something, but after a few minutes she seemed to be sleeping okay so I got lost

 

[nooleen]

 

[jonah]

amazing

 

[therealjohnny]

Don't you know that it's different for gulls?

 

[snakybus]

oi nooly and no.7 tomorrow, stop slagging off my mate moods for mallards on facebook where he can't get at you, yiz fucks

or the beardy lad washingcattle for that matter

I will not have this on my internet

 

[therealjohnny]

You can see those posts? Ah here

 

[nooleen]

oi nooly and no.7 tomorrow, stop slagging off my mate moods for mallards on facebook where he can't get at you, yiz fucks

or the beardy lad washingcattle for that matter

I will not have this on my internet

you should see what we're saying about you