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kthozoid

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Dugin was fired from his post at Moscow State University in 2014. He felt Putin wasn't assertive enough with regard to the Ukraine crisis and wanted an invasion. So Dugin doesn't have the ear of government though he's not without influence. In fact many Russians who would still describe themselves as both soviet and socially conservative (his supposed demographic) consider him to be something of a clown.
 
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Dugin was fired from his post at Moscow State University in 2014. He felt Putin wasn't assertive enough with regard to the Ukraine crisis and wanted an invasion. So Dugin doesn't have the ear of government though he's not without influence. In fact many Russians who would still describe themselves as both soviet and socially conservative (his supposed demographic) consider him to be something of a clown.
I was aware that he'd fallen out to a degree with Putin but can still see similarities between his ideas and Putins projection of a Russkiy Mir.
What does he do now, rely on public speaking/book sales? I was gonna order 4th Political Theory last week but it seems there's a lot of mysticism in it so I decided to give it a miss, have you read it?
 
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7 - No tomorrow

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You’re right of course, 7 - No tomorrow, almost everyone does acknowledge slavery and colonialism in the development of capitalism, as they should. However there’s rarely the same urgency to prefix any discussion of UK, French or American politics with a reference to the awful human costs upon which those bodies-politic are based.
Because Stalin is still venerated. That's why it's brought up. It's not what he did, it's the refusal to acknowledge it for the evil it was and rush to defend what he 'achieved'.
Any modern country with sense of itself would ruthlessly examine what led it to self-genocide and it teach it in school for the evil it was. Anyone I know with a gra for Russia just wants to mitigate what he did and sell the sizzle of a modern economy.

It remains to this day a country where the rule of law is given lip service and keeping its people ignorant is state policy.

For a world power, it looks like one of the most godawful places to live at any time in the last 100 years.
 
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Communism fell when it did because Gorbachev tried too much, too soon. He initiated economic and political reforms at the same time and in ceding more power to the Soviets allowed for the rise of ambitious opponents, primarily Yeltsin. He, Shushkevich and Kravchuk went behind Gorbachev's back to dissolve the Union and Gorbachev was too weak and indecisive to strike back effectively. The Chinese were exposed to the same forces yet managed to maintain their communist state, they introduced economic reform first and now, very slowly, are introducing political reform. I don't believe that the collapse of the USSR was a foregone conclusion.
I respect this thoughtful analysis, but why is the converse argument never made on Stalin?

"Other countries achieved industrialisation. But Stalin tried too much, too soon. Had they introduced industrial reforms slowly, genocide may not have been a foregone conclusion."

Gorbachev rushed things and is a cunt.
Stalin rushed things, killed millions, and is a busy man.

I am sorry to go on about this. I'm not having a go. I really believe these things.
 

kthozoid

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Theodore Kaczinski, i've not even read 'Foundations of Geopolitics', never mind 'The 4th Political Theory' though i'm familiar with his stuff second hand through some of his followers' writings. The former seems to be a sort of mirror-image of Brzezinski, whilst the latter does appear to be heavily loaded with mysticism content, Kali Yuga and all that. Here's an article which deals with some of his occult side, though the subject matter is one i'm not very conversant with: Dugin’s Occult Fascism and the Hijacking of Left Anti-Imperialism and Muslim Anti-Salafism Fourth Position, like third position, seems to be nothing more than fascism in drag, or in this case fascist ideology with communist imagery. He's got a following amongst those who would consider themselves right wing anti-imperialists.
 
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I respect this thoughtful analysis, but why is the converse argument never made on Stalin?

"Other countries achieved industrialisation. But Stalin tried too much, too soon. Had they introduced industrial reforms slowly, genocide may not have been a foregone conclusion."

Gorbachev rushed things and is a cunt.
Stalin rushed things, killed millions, and is a busy man.

I am sorry to go on about this. I'm not having a go. I really believe these things.
I love to go on about Russia, keep asking questions as long as you see fit.
Stalin built the Soviet Union (well, not quite, but he was instrumental in its growth and consolidation), Gorbachev rocked up and within six years it had all fallen apart.
I guess for Stalin there wasn't time to slowly industrialise, the Soviet Union was a unique experiment and was under threat from without almost immediately. To steer it through its birth pangs would take huge sacrifice and as ever it fell upon the ordinary people to make that sacrifice. Stalin comes out of it well because the Russians like a strong leader, and because Russia needs a strong leader, keeping together a state of that size is no easy task.
 
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Theodore Kaczinski, i've not even read 'Foundations of Geopolitics', never mind 'The 4th Political Theory' though i'm familiar with his stuff second hand through some of his followers' writings. The former seems to be a sort of mirror-image of Brzezinski, whilst the latter does appear to be heavily loaded with mysticism content, Kali Yuga and all that. Here's an article which deals with some of his occult side, though the subject matter is one i'm not very conversant with: Dugin’s Occult Fascism and the Hijacking of Left Anti-Imperialism and Muslim Anti-Salafism Fourth Position, like third position, seems to be nothing more than fascism in drag, or in this case fascist ideology with communist imagery. He's got a following amongst those who would consider themselves right wing anti-imperialists.
I might try "Foundations of Geopolitics" so, thanks. I imagine Dugin vs Brzezinski would be an argument worth seeing.
In any interviews I've seen with Dugin he seems at pains to emphasise that he's not fascist, a case of protesting too much maybe.
Would he have any credibility amongst extreme Nationalists in Russia, the sort of guys that think Putin too soft?
 

kthozoid

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He probably doesn't himself as fascist as he would distinguish himself from the Black Hundred tradition, let's say (even though that well pre-dates fascism itself). I'd consider him a type of smenavekhovets - the type of White Guardist who returned to Russia after the Civil War was settled and accepted Bolshevism as a native and authentic Russian ideology, or at least something they could live with. Quite a few of those did pretty well under Stalin, the author Alexei Tolstoi being one of the more prominent ones. It continued all the way through the USSR finally and variously re-emerging under the Pamyat and NatBol movements of the 80s and 90s. He has followers amongst fascists in Russia, but there are a few varieties of these, as i'm sure you're aware, and yes, for some of these (Nazis essentially), he is far too soft. His influence also extends to national conservatives in Serbia and elsewhere. Sesselj and the like would be kindred. In end effect his following is largely fascist or nativist or some other localised version of the so-called 'alt-Right'. http://static1.squarespace.com/stat...088409c4d02d6/1434876436109/brzinskydugin.JPG
 

kthozoid

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Limonov is another joker, to be honest, and not sure how seriously he takes it all. But yes, in as much as he is/was NatBol, he can be regarded as part of the right. Still, his alliances vary as i'm sure you're aware, now Karadzic in Serbia, now Kasparov in Russia. Now it seems he's Putinist. To be honest i think he's just a provocateur of sorts. Dugin really is the central figure in terms of status and charisma. The alt-right scene seems to be a relatively recent arrival with various cultural roots in the artless neo-folk music/industrial music scenes, third position dissembling, mysticism and 'vulgar marxism' and the appropriation of the latters aesthetics, all in one incoherent mish-mash. In essence, it's not an alternative to anything at all, but merely old wine in new bottles.
 
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Limonov is another joker, to be honest, and not sure how seriously he takes it all. But yes, in as much as he is/was NatBol, he can be regarded as part of the right. Still, his alliances vary as i'm sure you're aware, now Karadzic in Serbia, now Kasparov in Russia. Now it seems he's Putinist. To be honest i think he's just a provocateur of sorts. Dugin really is the central figure in terms of status and charisma. The alt-right scene seems to be a relatively recent arrival with various cultural roots in the artless neo-folk music/industrial music scenes, third position dissembling, mysticism and 'vulgar marxism' and the appropriation of the latters aesthetics, all in one incoherent mish-mash. In essence, it's not an alternative to anything at all, but merely old wine in new bottles.
I don't know much about Limonov to be honest, I came across a review of a book based on him a year or so back and he seemed to be quite the character. The only real exposure I've had to rightist movements in Russia is The Black Hundreds, Dugin and reading a little on the current crop who like to pick on migrants from the Caucasus/Central Asia. They seem to be strong within the Russian football hooligan community (no surprise there), I've seen the monarchist flag at games and who could forget the below via Poland in Warsaw?


And yeah, I should really be Фёдор , I went for the lazy transliteration though.
 

kthozoid

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Limonov's articles for eXile.ru were sometimes entertaining. What an odd character alright. Did you mean Walter Laqueur's 'Black Hundreds'? Doesn't go into a great deal of depth on Dugin, if i recall, but has interesting background on Pamyat and the various far-right sewers that were flowing in 80/90s and threw up the likes of Barkashov etc. My memory's a bit sketchy though.

Actually, now that i think of it, another person you could check out is Anton Shekhovstov, if you don't know him already. He's quite knowledgable on Eurasianism as he's a former Duginist himself, though it's not something that he's given to admitting as he switched sides and is reselling himself as a respectable maidanist these days. Still his blog has some interesting information but needs to be read with great care as he's a Ukrainian nationalist now and anything but impartial.
 

hydromancer

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The alt-right scene seems to be a relatively recent arrival with various cultural roots in the artless neo-folk music/industrial music scenes

I dont think there are many Russian neo folk groups maybe neutral is a well known one ?

There is allot of noise/Industrial stuff but I am not sure how political or influential it is.

Earlier stuff
 

kthozoid

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I meant that the alt-right scene in general draws in part from the wider neo-folk scene and its offshoots. I vaguely recall some online outrage among Eurasianists when Death in June performed in Kiev a while back and expressed support for the regime there. A rather baffling myopia given DIJs solidarity with Israel as well.
 

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