Repeal The 8th Amendment (1 Viewer)

[travispickle]

I'm gonna put the fact that you forgot that I already posted this and you responded to my post down to the stress of the referendum. Come next saturday there will be no excuses though so watch out.


anyway, I think Mr. Bruton here pretty much explains the no-side's thinking perfectly,

John Bruton says abortion is inconsistent with State’s philosophy

any logical inconsistencies, self-delusional hypocrisy and out-right lies are brushed aside for repeating "well it's a sad situation but we can't be seen to be killing the babbies" again and again and again.

Apologies Lilli I didn't realise but it's worth posting again in any event!!

 

[Lili Marlene]

Just listening to that John Bruton interview, holy shit it's much worse than what was written.

 

[YoungHearts]

A few more days.....we can do it, with one last push and lots of patience, at least I really hope we can. I had a bit of a wobble at the weekend, but then woke up this morning even more determined, all we can do is keep trying, keep the heart up

 

[GARYXKNIFEDX]

My daughter (12) was asking about the vote etc when I picked her up from school today. I asked were they (the kids) talking about it. She said they were but weren't supposed to. She said they all would vote yes. I take from that that the conversations at home are leaning that way,I hope.

 

[nooleen]

“I cannot understand why they came up with something so liberal.” --j bruton

because they were presented with a load of facts you fatheaded twat

 

[IFF]

I don't see how the proposals are "so liberal",i think it is pretty moderate being 12 weeks.

ugh

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My third question would be "how?"

A part of me is curious as to how they suggest that they'd stop them from travelling to the UK, another part of me is scared as to how they suggest that they'd stop them from travelling to the UK, ultrasounds at airports and border points for all females of a child bearing age maybe or just ban all women from travelling outside the country, can't be too safe in this regard.

 

[ann post]

It might not be them.

Remember we are in brexit times and this mechanism involving hospitals in another country has no guarantees if the border control gets messy.

 

[Burgerbarbaby]

FWIW I was chatting to a woman today in Kilkenny who has been canvassing regularly. She's not optimistic. A lot of people wouldn't come to the door, and there was a fair bit of fruitless arguing with No folk. Loads of Yes people too obviously, but her take was Kilkenny is not going to go well.

 

[Squiggle]

I'm sitting here with my little girl, and all that I can think is that I don't want her to grow up in an Ireland that treats her the way it treated me, my sisters and my friends... so I can't process the idea that repeal might not win. Can this country really be that shit?

 

[Unicron]

FWIW I was chatting to a woman today in Kilkenny who has been canvassing regularly. She's not optimistic. A lot of people wouldn't come to the door, and there was a fair bit of fruitless arguing with No folk. Loads of Yes people too obviously, but her take was Kilkenny is not going to go well.

It was always going to be Dublin and places near it like North Kildare, East Meath and North Wicklow that was going to swing it in Leinster; along with Galway and Cork.

Was talking earlier to a friend who has been canvassing in Louth who said it's really divided and hard. Loads of respect to people working on this in an area with a no vote likely to win.

 

[Scientician 0.8]

I'm sitting here with my little girl, and all that I can think is that I don't want her to grow up in an Ireland that treats her the way it treated me, my sisters and my friends... so I can't process the idea that repeal might not win. Can this country really be that shit?

I reckon it will pass but I am not as certain as I was this time last referendum. I've seen some very sophisticated literature/ads by the No side that make this feel like a close run thing, despite the indomitable campaign the Yes side has undertaken. I really hope on Saturday it turns out to be a Yes and we can get on with making life better for mná na hÉireann.

 

[pete]

I'm curious if there's anyone here that hasn't made up their mind?

Or anyone voting no?

edit: just remembered I could add a poll

 

[IFF]

It might not be them.

Remember we are in brexit times and this mechanism involving hospitals in another country has no guarantees if the border control gets messy.

Good point, I wasn't thinking about that.

---
I am pessimistic on the outcome too. I hope it passes but it will be far tighter than the polls.

 

[pete]

I'm really, really uncomfortable with the narrative that some media outlets seems to be going for around parents who've been through a FFA diagnosis; that those who choose not to intervene are automatically against repeal. RTE ran a point-counterpoint piece on the 6pm news last week framed this way, the irish times have done it a couple of times now, and I believe it came up again on one of the TV debates this evening. I don't know where this particular trope came from, but I've met several mothers who've been through a FFA diagnosis, who chose not to "travel", and who are committed to a yes vote. It's about making the best choice to achieve the best possible outcome for each individual mother and their family.

 

[pete]

And then there was this non-sequitor of an article

 

[rettucs]

“I cannot understand why they came up with something so liberal.” --j bruton

because they were presented with a load of facts you fatheaded twat

FWIW I was chatting to a woman today in Kilkenny who has been canvassing regularly. She's not optimistic. A lot of people wouldn't come to the door, and there was a fair bit of fruitless arguing with No folk. Loads of Yes people too obviously, but her take was Kilkenny is not going to go well.

it depends on the area though. In and around Kilkenny city will have a much older population. Once you move out to the newer estates you'll get more young people. I doubt a Yes campaigner would be received too well in the former.

I was in Kilkenny at the weekend just gone. I was driving around sunday morning and saw the No campaigners outside the churches. But they're kind of preaching to the choir there. I couldn't see the point of trying to canvass mass goers. But then in town the only campaigning to be seen was a couple of Yes people around the town hall.

I think there'll be a pretty stark age divide and I think, because there are plenty of young people in general, Yes should do ok there.

All the polls at the weekend looked healthy for Yes. They all had a Yes vote in excess of 50% to around 30% for No, with the rest undecided. I was having the same jitters before that but it gave me some confidence this thing is going to pass.

And Dublin should be huge for Yes. Every day, all around town, people are sporting Yes badges and t-shirts and it's great to see. You wouldn't see fuck-all No anywhere, unless it's canvassers.

Don't forget also that there's an estimated 120k (is that right? sounds kind of high) signed up to the electoral register for this vote and most are young people who were encouraged to sign up through colleges, etc. I think that could be massive too.

 

[Burgerbarbaby]

The No voters that I know personally (two family members and three other people who are Christian) are coming from a point of simple homespun "common sense" thinking as they see it. And they all very quickly became fatigued and frightened by the noise of the campaign, and are no longer listening to the discussion. The heat in the debate has largely been created by the No campaign, and it's hard not to think that it was done deliberately with this aim in mind. These voters aren't stupid but this campaign has entirely stopped them discussing the matter because they already feel cornered. The actual meat of the debate is invisible to them. This is easily the most despicable campaign I've ever seen, and done with (let's be charitable and say) the unwitting complicity of the big media outlets. My best information (not that I needed convincing) has come from here and Twitter, and a few other online sources, all online. The No folk I know don't have the ability or the energy to find and wade through this stuff. Therefore, any change of mind has to come about through one-to-one discussion, often with people you care about enormously. This is something I'm facing again this week, and I'm not looking forward to it. I'm in indescribable awe of people who have been out canvassing for the last few months.

 

[Burgerbarbaby]

it depends on the area though. In and around Kilkenny city will have a much older population. Once you move out to the newer estates you'll get more young people. I doubt a Yes campaigner would be received too well in the former.

I was in Kilkenny at the weekend just gone. I was driving around sunday morning and saw the No campaigners outside the churches. But they're kind of preaching to the choir there. I couldn't see the point of trying to canvass mass goers. But then in town the only campaigning to be seen was a couple of Yes people around the town hall.

I think there'll be a pretty stark age divide and I think, because there are plenty of young people in general, Yes should do ok there.

All the polls at the weekend looked healthy for Yes. They all had a Yes vote in excess of 50% to around 30% for No, with the rest undecided. I was having the same jitters before that but it gave me some confidence this thing is going to pass.

And Dublin should be huge for Yes. Every day, all around town, people are sporting Yes badges and t-shirts and it's great to see. You wouldn't see fuck-all No anywhere, unless it's canvassers.

Don't forget also that there's an estimated 120k (is that right? sounds kind of high) signed up to the electoral register for this vote and most are young people who were encouraged to sign up through colleges, etc. I think that could be massive too.

Good post. Yep, hopefully you're right. If I had to to bet, I'd say it will be repealed. I'm very nervous though.

 

[nooleen]

fuck's sake

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[rettucs]

The No voters that I know personally (two family members and three other people who are Christian) are coming from a point of simple homespun "common sense" thinking as they see it. And they all very quickly became fatigued and frightened by the noise of the campaign, and are no longer listening to the discussion. The heat in the debate has largely been created by the No campaign, and it's hard not to think that it was done deliberately with this aim in mind. These voters aren't stupid but this campaign has entirely stopped them discussing the matter because they already feel cornered. The actual meat of the debate is invisible to them. This is easily the most despicable campaign I've ever seen, and done with (let's be charitable and say) the unwitting complicity of the big media outlets. My best information (not that I needed convincing) has come from here and Twitter, and a few other online sources, all online. The No folk I know don't have the ability or the energy to find and wade through this stuff. Therefore, any change of mind has to come about through one-to-one discussion, often with people you care about enormously. This is something I'm facing again this week, and I'm not looking forward to it. I'm in indescribable awe of people who have been out canvassing for the last few months.

yea, same. They're all heroes.

And referenda are a balls. So many people just don't bother engaging and the issues being voted on are just too important for that. Voter apathy is as big a challenge to the Yes campaign as anything coming from the No side (who, lets face it, don't have any coherent arguments).