Repeal The 8th Amendment (1 Viewer)

The 8th Amendment

  • Repeal

    Votes: 33 100.0%
  • Retain

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    33
  • Poll closed .

rettucs

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I don't know the full details of the bill Mick Wallace was pushing. The summary is something from an article in today's indo is

that women should be allowed to have a termination, where both a perinatologist and an obstetrician deem the pregnancy to be non-viable
Regardless of the different views out there on the abortion issue. this seems pretty much to be a no-brainer.

But this

it is not expected to pass after being deemed unconstitutional by Attorney General Máire Whelan.
Because of the 8th Amendment, right?

But isn't the whole point of Wallace's bill to push this issue further up the agenda? To bring it to a stage where we can finally vote on getting that abhorrent amendment removed once and for all.

I'm disgusted with Katherine Zappone. Its the second u-turn shes done, and shes been involved in an expenses 'scandal' since being voted into the dail. But I'm especially pissed off with her about this. I voted for her, mostly, because of her views on this issue. I can say with a degree of certainty that she would not have gotten elected but for her stance on this issue at election time.

For her to turn around now and decide not to vote for this bill, even if only out of a sense of principle, is pretty fucking disgusting. Especially seeing as Fine Gael are implementing the whip system (suggesting that shes nothing more than a fine gael lapdog) and are not allowing a free vote, as Fianna Fail are.

And I really don't want to let this drop. I expect I'll be blocked by her on twitter by lunchtime.
 
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The oul constitution is great crack.

Walace is politicking, he knows his bills are unconstitutional, and aren't going to pass the Dail. He may feel he's doing something worthwhile but I'm not so sure, people are aware of the issue already, all this stuff does is fire up the faithful and rally the opposition. Nothing of any note is going to happen with regard to the 8th until Endas citizens convention reports back at which time we'll probably be given a vote on it. So say late 2017/early 2018. The rest is grandstanding.

Zappone clearly marked her intent when herself and Lowry were the first non-FG TDs to vote for Enda as Taoiseach


was a few hours before going to vote for Enda. She's fundamentally dishonest and cares more about money and power than principle. Kenny has her bought and I suspect she'll stay bought - voting the FG line on almost everything with the odd 'rebellion' on matters of no real consequence to prove she's no poodle.
 

rettucs

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He may feel he's doing something worthwhile but I'm not so sure, people are aware of the issue already, all this stuff does is fire up the faithful and rally the opposition.
That occurred to me. But I also wondered if there was a bit of kite-flying here. If he was testing the waters to an extent, to see what the feeling was out there. The numbers for, against, etc. Who'd allow the free vote, who wouldn't.

It seems worthwhile to me, on the face of it.

Kenny has her bought and I suspect she'll stay bought - voting the FG line on almost everything with the odd 'rebellion' on matters of no real consequence to prove she's no poodle.
Yep, that would seem to be the case, sadly. Yet again, I've been duped, voting for something on a promise that was later reneged on.

If this government ends up being short-lived, she has to know she hasn't a prayer of getting back in as an independent (she got in on a moderate protest vote). Her only option come next election will be to stand for Fine Gael, or unemployment. If she goes the FG route, how will that sit with Colm Brophy, or that other tit in the consitituency, Deirdre O'Donovan, who demanded several recounts.
 
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You're possibly right regarding Wallace's intentions. It just seems from here that he's happy to engage in stunts in order to get his name out there and to be seen to be doing something.

Zappone will get her vote on the 8th eventually (assuming the government doesn't fall before then) at which point she can point to the vote and say "I did this". I doubt she'll actually end up unemployed, (unless she chooses to retire - she must be getting near that age and I imagine she has some nice pensions to fall back on) there's always jobs for the boys/girls in the private/semi state sector, she's scratched the right backs and made the right contacts so she'll be ok.
 
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Is the text of Wallace's bill anywhere to be found? I had a look on his and the Oireachtas ' websites to no avail.
Given that it deals with abortion in cases of FFA it would appear (on the face of it) to be clearly unconstitutional in which case passing it only to be rejected by the SC would appear to be grandstanding.
 

Lili Marlene

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Way beyond the Rubicon
Plus there's this

'You Allow An Unconstitutional Bill On Property Rights But Not Women's Rights?'

The last point, Ceann Comhairle, is to remind this Government, and appeal to the backbenchers, three, four weeks ago, you said a bill on property rights was unconstitutional. You allowed that bill to go through.
so clearly it's not an obstacle unless they want it to be.

Grandstanding is probably what is needed at this point, let the Supreme Court decide. I suspect it might get a little complicated at the SC and they (the people quashing this bill whenever possible) would rather that particular conversation didn't happen.
 

rettucs

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Unconstitutional Deference

The plot thickens as the defence thins. They should really publish the AGs understanding of why these bills are unconstitutional.
wow, thats so interesting. So it would seem the claims of the bill being 'unconstitutional' are nothing more than a smokescreen by catholic extremists (ie: Fine Gael) to prevent a vote happening.

I think Wallace is playing a blinder here. The repercussions, should he get his way, are huge. A precedent will be set that will prevent the government from ever stopping anything, on constitutional grounds, from being voted on again.

I'm not Shane Ross' biggest fan, but I like what hes saying too.

And Katherine Zappone, FUCK YOU, YOU ABSOLUTE LIAR
 
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I wouldn't think FG are Catholic extremists, particularly not the urban TDs, they just don't want to give Wallace a victory.

Ross is saying and doing whatever is politically expedient for him, he must be finding it tough to be in government given that his whole raison d'être is criticism of same. The man has no policies beyond getting reelected.
 

rettucs

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I wouldn't think FG are Catholic extremists, particularly not the urban TDs, they just don't want to give Wallace a victory.
Being FG doesn't equal catholic extremist, but plenty of them are. Same with FF

Ross is saying and doing whatever is politically expedient for him, he must be finding it tough to be in government given that his whole raison d'être is criticism of same. The man has no policies beyond getting reelected.
agreed. Can't stand the prick. But, if hes supporting something I personally agree with, I'll cut him some slack, temporarily.
 

Unicron

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agreed. Can't stand the prick. But, if hes supporting something I personally agree with, I'll cut him some slack, temporarily.
Friend of mine met him on the campaign trail before the election when he was canvassing, told him that the 8th was a big deal for her and she wanted it gone. He said he agreed. FWIW. Might just be a thing that politicians say to people.
 

ann post

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Friend of mine met him on the campaign trail before the election when he was canvassing, told him that the 8th was a big deal for her and she wanted it gone. He said he agreed. FWIW. Might just be a thing that politicians say to people.
I'm pretty sure going door to door telling people they are wrong isn't a big seller in the 'winning hearts and minds' game.
 

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