Racism in Ireland (1 Viewer)

magicbastarder

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in fact, if you're going for a book to try to supposedly teach kid the potential terrible power of words - which is not the sole reason for teaching TKAM, obviously - choosing a book which reaches for the nuclear option, the N word (and i'm *not* suggesting that TKAM does that simply for the sake of it), would disarm such a lesson.
as in; if you want to teach someone the power of words, choose one where seemingly innocuous words gain a malign power.

not that i can think of such a book off the top of my head, of course, suitable for the JC cycle.

an aside, a chap i know *hates* the beano. when he was a kid, he was identified with that simpering character, walter the softy, and it became a verbal stick for other kids to beat him with, so to speak.
 

nuke terrorist

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'teaching' kids about racism - a non fiction book (by a person of colour) is a no brainer ?

I have very little interest in fiction.
the best way to ruin works of literature or music is to obligate kids to study them in school.
(same with sport: it isn't essential - especially in school)

if anything is unsuitable for kids it's the straightjacketed Irish education system.

the main thing I learned in school was how to empathize with people as some
teachers were examples of how to never treat anybody (the kids were alright).
 

ernesto

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You're so high up on that horse I'm pretty sure I shouldn't be bothering but anyway. First of all your projecting and you're exaggerating. Ola in the interview, didn't say she was traumatized. That's your projection. Secondly, I was being a bit tongue in cheek but at the same time I don't think it's a crazy comparison to make. I'm not for a minute saying that overweight people have it worse or even as bad but as you say yourself, kids are kids - some are little geebags. If you've been called a "fat cunt" all your life or had to listen to comments about the size of your clothes and what you eat for lunch constantly; school can be a very cruel place and it's not a stretch to think students might be made to feel uncomfortable in such a situation.

Right,

I don't own any horses, let alone one to be high up on.
I don't know why you think that I'm trying to be morally superior to you?
I'm not. This is discourse. There's no need to be a dick about it.
Maybe there's an element of projection but that's only as an attempt at empathy.
Because speaking as a fat kid in school, who was bullied, you were still way off the mark.
You werent the unfortunate pre-pubescent kid that looked like Mary Harney.
So I'm not sure you'd have a huge understanding what it is to be made feel like shit, Daily.
and that's over something trivial, not race. Which as previously stated multiple times, does not even compare.
imagine being constantly subjected to that word that brings you down and you try not let it. That reminds you of how fucking hard you and/or your family's life is/has been because of your skin colour.
So way off the mark again there
 
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nuke terrorist

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I feel you are being dismissive of what hermie suffered.
bullying is not trivial - for whatever reason.

there is nothing more vile than racism but I don't think that diminishes
the suffering caused by other prejudice.
ask poor people, women, disabled people, LGBT+ folks or someone
regularly bullied because of their size.
 

ernesto

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I feel you are being dismissive of what hermie suffered.
bullying is not trivial - for whatever reason.

there is nothing more vile than racism but I don't think that diminishes
the suffering caused by other prejudice.
ask poor people, women, disabled people, LGBT+ folks or someone
regularly bullied because of their size.

what are you talking about?!

I think your eyes must be broken.
Nowhere did he say he was bullied.
 

Cornu Ammonis

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ask poor people, women, disabled people, LGBT+ folks or someone
regularly bullied because of their size.
Um, @ernesto and I both have mentioned in our posts that we were bullied. Maybe @hermie was too but I read his post as hypothetical. I went through about 10 years of bullying about being fat and took exception to his view that being bullied was as bad as putting up with systemic racism.

I’m not sure where you’re going with this, do we need to suffer more about our weight to justify not having a book with the N-word on the JC syllabus?
 

ann post

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in fact, if you're going for a book to try to supposedly teach kid the potential terrible power of words - which is not the sole reason for teaching TKAM, obviously - choosing a book which reaches for the nuclear option, the N word (and i'm *not* suggesting that TKAM does that simply for the sake of it), would disarm such a lesson.
as in; if you want to teach someone the power of words, choose one where seemingly innocuous words gain a malign power.

not that i can think of such a book off the top of my head, of course, suitable for the JC cycle.

you could just teach kids in ireland that they speak english and are studying english because of a murderous centuries long campaign to annex the language and culture of the country as an example of racism instead of looking for a nice fiction based one :p.
 

egg_

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I ... took exception to his view that being bullied was as bad as putting up with systemic racism
Had a big long discussion with my 15 year old about systemic racism the other day. Obviously there's systemic racism against travellers here, but apart from Direct Provision (which seems to me to be xenophbia rather than a race thing) I'd struggle to find examples of systemic racism against anyone else ... unless "systemic" doesn't mean what I think it means
 

ann post

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That's what history class is for.

Oh I know, I said that myself a few post ago. But if people want to be insistent about there being some kind of race relations portion of our study of literature in the english language in Ireland, we don't have a better closer to home example that would inform the understanding of literature, the history of irish literature and for some reason race relations than that.
 

Lili Marlene

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Had a big long discussion with my 15 year old about systemic racism the other day. Obviously there's systemic racism against travellers here, but apart from Direct Provision (which seems to me to be xenophbia rather than a race thing) I'd struggle to find examples of systemic racism against anyone else ... unless "systemic" doesn't mean what I think it means
So aside from the following examples of systematic racism there's no systematic racism?

I know what you're getting at though, words matter and all that so maybe we should start talking about actual existing racism in the day to day rather than legalized, official racism, sanctioned and coded in law.
 

egg_

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So aside from the following examples of systematic racism there's no systematic racism?
Oh, no, sorry - I meant it more as a question. What does "systemic racism" mean and how is it different from just plain old racism? Like say in the US black people get murdered by the cops regularly. In Ireland travellers are pretty much universally refused entry to pubs. I'd call those things "systemic".

I guess what I wouldn't call systemic is when something isn't really ingrained in a society. If a Romanian kid gets abuse from other kids in school, is it because Irish people are systematically racist against Romanians, or because anyone who stands out in school gets abuse? Hard to know
 

nuke terrorist

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what are you talking about?!

I think your eyes must be broken.
Nowhere did he say he was bullied.


Um, @ernesto and I both have mentioned in our posts that we were bullied. Maybe @hermie was too but I read his post as hypothetical. I went through about 10 years of bullying about being fat and took exception to his view that being bullied was as bad as putting up with systemic racism.

I’m not sure where you’re going with this, do we need to suffer more about our weight to justify not having a book with the N-word on the JC syllabus?

i stand corrected.

i never mentioned TKAMB and have no interest in defending the book.

i never said bullying people because of their size was as bad as racism
but I did say it was also unacceptable and should be taken seriously.
I feel you are being dismissive of what hermie suffered.
bullying is not trivial - for whatever reason.

there is nothing more vile than racism but I don't think that diminishes
the suffering caused by other prejudice.
ask poor people, women, disabled people, LGBT+ folks or someone
regularly bullied because of their size.
 

egg_

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I think that shouted abuse over clothes and hair or whatever largely goes away when you leave school, I don't think the shouted abuse over skin colour does.
So do you think getting shit for looking obviously different (e.g. being black/Indian/Chinese/whatever) is worse than getting shit for being Polish, for example? If you do, then why?

Not trying to catch you out here, I'm just curious.
 

Lili Marlene

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So do you think getting shit for looking obviously different (e.g. being black/Indian/Chinese/whatever) is worse than getting shit for being Polish, for example? If you do, then why?

Not trying to catch you out here, I'm just curious.
Worse? No. But easier to spot on the street.
 

egg_

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Ah ok, I thought by "goes away" you meant "stops impacting you emotionally". Heh. I need to take people more literally

I remember when the first Chinese people arrived in Wexford town, must have been the 70s sometime, I was in my first primary school. All the kids (though not me, I was sound even in the 70s) in the school yard crowded around the two Chinese kids just to look - this was back in 2-channel black-and-white-tv land, I'm guessing most of the local kids had never even seen a Chinese person on tv. I passed one of them on the street years later - they had no English whatsoever when they arrived - and heard him roaring at someone in a full-on Wexford townie accent
 

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