pride vs rte (1 Viewer)

Deadmanposting

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With respect, that is vague as heck

I honestly think I am well able to make up my own mind on who's making sense and who's not

With abortion and marriage equality, this country has proven we can handle these difficult debates, and get to equitable decisions even when we let dopes - and god knows we have them in abundance - on the air
And even with outside conservative groups sticking their oar in
Even with Breda O'Brien on the front page of the Irish Times and John Waters on the TV

Don't silence people, and don't make ordinary people fear talking about their concerns, and we'll get there

We will get this sorted, if we keep talking


And a sincere happy Friday to you all, and a good weekend
It's gonna be a good one
 

Denny Oubidoux

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With respect, that is vague as heck
It's clearly saying that the Liveline discussion was orchestrated by some well-organised anti-trans campaign group with a negative agenda rather than an attempt to bring clarity to the issue for people who don't get it. I would rather eat a hundred radios than listen to Joe Duffy so I don't know about that, maybe those assholes are just claiming it as a big win. I'm pretty clueless about this issue, to be honest.
 

egg_

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With abortion and marriage equality, this country has proven we can handle these difficult debates, and get to equitable decisions even when we let dopes - and god knows we have them in abundance - on the air
And even with outside conservative groups sticking their oar in
Even with Breda O'Brien on the front page of the Irish Times and John Waters on the TV

Don't silence people, and don't make ordinary people fear talking about their concerns, and we'll get there
This is insightful and very well put IMO (applauds)
 

magicbastarder

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a friend got invited to the citizen's assembly, and she was saying that it's eye opening, mainly due to the people you get to meet there. all of human life is there, proper full on conspiracy theory dingbats to 20 year olds whose horizons are incredibly narrow. but as i read, when they had a similar convention to discuss abortion prior to the referendum, the simple access to the facts changed opinions.
 

flashback

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A cousin of mine moved over to America a few years back and started going out with a woman over there. For some reason she friended me on Facebook and over the course of the pandemic, her posts went from vaguely racist pro Trump stuff to what you see below:
Yeah, saw this first hand with a... well, I think he was born in Serbia (ie Yugoslavia) but grew up more or less as an American.
It was precluded by some other mental health issues that seemed transient when we were more mates. Then he got involved with the Republican Party, I think via a girlfriend. This spiraled into the Trumpian stuff at which point I wasn't in contact with him other than hearing stuff off other people. I'm not sure what state he's in now.

I was hearing harrowing stuff after he went into the Trumpland.
 

chris d

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Big dummy coming in. Haven’t followed any of the joe duffy thing or twitter discourse. Let there be a thousand blossoms bloom as far as I’m concerned. I have no issues with anyone, my question is. Is there any space for well meaning, well adjusted, sound women to be unsure about the phrase: trans women are women? Is that not a fair enough feeling?
 

Deadmanposting

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Big dummy coming in. Haven’t followed any of the joe duffy thing or twitter discourse. Let there be a thousand blossoms bloom as far as I’m concerned. I have no issues with anyone, my question is. Is there any space for well meaning, well adjusted, sound women to be unsure about the phrase: trans women are women? Is that not a fair enough feeling?

My understanding is that is the needle that has to be threaded
There are legitimate concerns there from well-meaning people. And the implications are very wide-reaching in a lot of areas of life.

But also, my reading is that to have that discussion is to leave the debater open to the "denial of existence" accusation in the Pride statement. And therefore transphobic, and you get to where we are with RTE and Pride.

The re-writing of the definition of "woman" is at the heart of it all.
Less so than "man', cos we have had to write sooo many specific protections in for women into law, as the law has always been a patriarchal space and men have abused women so consistently through history..
 

Deadmanposting

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Just to bore you all a little bit more

What has informed my perspective on this is that in the 90s my girlfriend’s all-lady gym was being sued by a dude, who wanted access under some equality or equal access legislation to use the gym.
He was not trans, he was just an utter misogynist with a law degree. A prick.
I don’t think this is what trans people are doing – they are not being pricks. Trans women just want to feel accepted in all women’s spaces.


But what I did learn at that time is that the ladies at that gym – older women, women with body image issues, abuse victims, women for whatever you-name-it reason – felt VERY strongly about that hard-won space.
The world then, more than now, belonged to men, and they needed a place just for women.
My gym was just a gym.
This was different. It was a very precious space for them. I still rmemeber having to get my head around why my girlfriend was so mad about it. We ended up protesting and everything. The guy lost.
I believe this anxiety about loss of space for women & their bodies and recognition for women has to be addressed, openly and kindly. It's important.


On the other hand, one of my running groups is run by a trans woman – who is the kindest, nicest person. She organizes people to go running three days a week off her own bat for no money, just to have the social aspect of running enjoyed by all. (Not to make a joke, but that is something a woman does. Men are lazy shites at organising.)
I’d put someone through a wall if they messed with her, particularly over her identity.


I don’t know what she would do if she read what I have written here, but I would not be comfortable showing it to her, if I’m honest.
 

GO

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Hang on..so its the dirty fucking nazis stirring up stupid shit again?

Now I do give a fuck
 

Deadmanposting

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Gender interventions for young people are a fairly contentious issue too
For sure
Yes, it is

I was thinking of the debate about the legislation here

The childcare/protection thing is another Gordian knot all its own, no doubt
 

nuke terrorist

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I hated turning into an adult as a young teen. If I could have stopped it (with blockers etc) I might well have.
and unless it caused me health problems, I highly doubt I would have regretted it -
Why? I was just happy as I was!

The rules for trans women competitive cyclists were made a lot stricter yesterday by the world governing body the UCI (acceptable testosterone level was halved).
don't want to derail this into cycling thread but it's another sign trans women issues are not going to be sorted anytime soon.
respect is the key word here.
 

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