Northern Ireland (1 Viewer)

JohnnyRaz

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Mary Lou saying a border poll within 5 years this morning. Probably more kite flying than calculation there.

To my mind there’s one major and unavoidable thing with a UI

You (and I) may not agree with or like the unionists, but almost regardless of how it’s handled we will end up with a sizeable minority in a united ireland who are there against their will.

This was the force for partition in the first place. And All the evils that went with it

And they’ve been there 400odd years so the ‘if you don’t like it you can fuck off’ argument isn’t realistic.
 

JohnnyRaz

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bet ye can't wait to have religious fundamentalists like Poots, etc in the dail if/when a 31 county* ireland happens :(



* a workers utopia Peoples Republic of Cork to secede from the madness, obvs
Can’t wait until they are lobbying their evangelical pals in the us for support for their oppressed minority!
 

chris d

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Thats why they need to carve out a new identity for themselves. We can't do all the work. Feel "northern irish" for want of a better term. Have their own cultural heritage without being dicks about it.

Short bit of commentary on a united ireland on the bbc there. Mad.
 

JohnnyRaz

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Thats why they need to carve out a new identity for themselves. We can't do all the work. Feel "northern irish" for want of a better term. Have their own cultural heritage without being dicks about it.

Short bit of commentary on a united ireland on the bbc there. Mad.
How well has that worked out for other minorities? I’m not disagreeing that this would be a solution - I just don’t see it happening
 

chris d

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And after 100 years of saying Ulster Says No and getting their way, it's not like it will happen overnight, if it all. Why i think you need (quite) a few more election cycles where Nationalists come out on top for the penny to drop.

That's the rough idea anyway.
 

magicbastarder

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maybe northern ireland could further consolidate? if it's 50/50, give fermanagh, tyrone and derry to the nationalists and consolidate the unionists to armagh, antrim and down?
 

JohnnyRaz

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maybe northern ireland could further consolidate? if it's 50/50, give fermanagh, tyrone and derry to the nationalists and consolidate the unionists to armagh, antrim and down?
Republican Sinn Fein had an Eire nua proposal which was a federated system with local assemblies in the provinces. Not sure how workable that would be in practice, but perhaps giving the unionists a ‘homeland’ with greater level of local autonomy would be a way.

Kinda like how Spain has tried (and somewhat failed) to integrated Catalonia and the Basque Country.
 

taubstumm

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Thats why they need to carve out a new identity for themselves. We can't do all the work. Feel "northern irish" for want of a better term. Have their own cultural heritage without being dicks about it.

Short bit of commentary on a united ireland on the bbc there. Mad.

over the last couple of years, it’s been interesting to note the rise of the term “PUL community” (“protestant-unionist-loyalist community”) in norniron. for some of the people using it, it seems essentially like they’re rehearsing the use of the term as a possible future new identity within some kind of united ireland. bizarrely enough, it seems at least somewhat inspired by the various designations of queerness: LGBT, LGBTQIA, etc.
 

Deadmanposting

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Itysl 103 He Admit It GIF by Vulture.com
 

Deadmanposting

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DUP didn't do that bad then.

Natural pessimist here, but think we need another couple of elections where a Nationalist party comes on top before we get too excited. But still a historic election.

Had a couple of cans of Scraggy Bay, and on the phone so typing difficult. But here's an incoming take anyway.

With regards to the United Ireland question. Here is how i go about it from a very high level. Question, why does Northern Ireland exist? The answer to that, for me, means, there should be a United Ireland.

This post isnt going to solve / realise how to achieve that to the satisfaction of everyone on THE ISLAND OF IRELAND. Apart from a vote winning 51% in the north.

I would, however, like to think it would be realistic that the majority in "the south" would like to see it happen. Having a part of the country ruled by Westminster? Let's move past that.

Some stuff.

The Flag/Anthem question.
Im from a very soft nationalist background. Went to a mixed school. Like rugby well enough. When the idea of changing the flag was raised, i thought fair enough. Let's help welcome the northern unionists. But ive changed my tune over the years. The people with an issue with the Irish flag will not care what it is changed to. Give them an option to be involved in a new design and they'll be as petty as possible.

I could live with a new flag. Something green with a Presidential Harp. But when it comes down to it, i dont think we are aiming towards a "new country" We have Ireland, the north would become part of it.

Cultural Differences.
Let's face it, im from there, a lot of them are as mad as fuck. Big angry nordie heads. They have the bbc as the standard television channels, giving them 30 minutes of English centric news followed by 5 minutes of "in your area" stuff . Okay there is proper northern irish episode(?) , but the first thing reported is always Westminster. Marching season. I also buy a load of cheap Northern Monk and Brewdog in nordie tesco when i head up. The list goes on.

Unionism
Im not solving this topic. If we have a united ireland, there is no union. What do they do then? I think they need a long term realisation that if you live in Ireland, you are at least in some way Irish. And the tide is turning. A united Ireland is coming (probably) . What are they going to do? Maybe embrace their irishness, their northern irishness. Have some sense of themselves without being complete dicks and wrecking society. How do we get there? Not with the DUP anyway.

The NHS v The HSE
This gets thrown out as the ultimate sensible win not to mess about. But, as perviously mentioned, with a closer inspection maybe the NHS isn't all it is cracked up to be.

My old fella (73) was given a 2 & 1/2 year wait to get his cataracts done. He's gone private. Still waiting a few months mind.

I made the point that at least their GP visits are free, but he wrecked it saying they have been paying for it all all their lives with taxes and rates.

So neither are in perfect shape. And we are a small independent island nation, our nationwide administrating and health provision needs work. But we are doing it on our own at least.

Have I solved it all? Excellent.

Realistically, we are at least 50 years away? I haven't bothered getting into loyalist violence. Reparations from London(????) and whatever else. The violence would hopefully be managed by time and political leadership, but look where we are now with all the insincere waffle about the protocol from Donaldson and the like.

To recap, let's have a united ireland and all be sound? I remember as a young lad thinking politics down here must be so easy. No usins v themuns.

The only goal being the greater good for your fellow irish man/woman. Whoops.
There aren't a lot of places for me to firmly grab a hold on here, but I do support long posts
 

Deadmanposting

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The NHS v The HSE
This gets thrown out as the ultimate sensible win not to mess about. But, as perviously mentioned, with a closer inspection maybe the NHS isn't all it is cracked up to be.
Very disturbing comment on the Brendan show this morning about how one of the issues in the election was waiting lists on the NHS
I would like to think that they are all spoiled and don't have a fucking clue what a waiting list is until they've waited for the HSE to get back to them, but still worrying. You know, worrying for me.
 

JohnnyRaz

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They won't settle for any flag,they might settle for a fleg though
Jaysis, that second one would be hard to fit on a kerb in a North Antrim housing estate
The indo is ahead of the game as usual:

Just thinking that in the event of a UI, this will probably occupy most of the bandwidth, and not boring stuff like electoral and representative structures and systems.

There’ll probably be a whole thing about Ulster fry vs Irish breakfast as well
 

Cornu Ammonis

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Very disturbing comment on the Brendan show this morning about how one of the issues in the election was waiting lists on the NHS
I would like to think that they are all spoiled and don't have a fucking clue what a waiting list is until they've waited for the HSE to get back to them, but still worrying. You know, worrying for me.
It was fairly regular to have to wait over week, sometimes two, for a GP visit when we lived up there. A GP.
 

Scientician 0.8

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Mary Lou saying a border poll within 5 years this morning. Probably more kite flying than calculation there.

To my mind there’s one major and unavoidable thing with a UI

You (and I) may not agree with or like the unionists, but almost regardless of how it’s handled we will end up with a sizeable minority in a united ireland who are there against their will.

This was the force for partition in the first place. And All the evils that went with it

And they’ve been there 400odd years so the ‘if you don’t like it you can fuck off’ argument isn’t realistic.

Last point is relevant with regard to white minority in South Africa, post Apartheid. The Afrikaaners have similarly deep roots and were always a minority in what was the state of South Africa but ultimately there will have to be a big dollop of like it or lump it. Nobody outside Ireland other than some Irish Americans and Scottish royalists give a shite about the North.
 

Scientician 0.8

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The election result, while significant to some degree, is really not all that indicative of whether the North is ready to vote to join the Republic. Alliance, if not Unionist, is biased towards Unionist and I also suspect many people don't take Assembly Elections this year that seriously, considering the years of stasis.

Before Brexit, I would have said a United Ireland will not occur in my lifetime. Now, it seems probable but maybe not highly so.
 

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