New Radiohead (1 Viewer)

[hermie]

I don't think it's too surprising that American bands aren't as clued in for a start. BDS seems to be a Brit-centric operation (Waters, Loach, Eno, Leigh).

Secondly, Radiohead are a very socially conscious group for want of a better phrase. They've played gigs for Amnesty, for Drop the Debt, Tibert, they've campaigned against Blair and Bush, as Unicron said they did one tour entirely without corporate advertising and another attempting to be carbon neutral. They're a band who think pretty deeply about the consequences of their actions as a group. Which is why it's strange to people that they've clearly read and disseminated articles such as the following but chose to turn a blind eye on this one
Why Palestine is Still the Issue

 

[YoungHearts]

Hello all, just thought I would post up a couple of interesting pieces on the issue,from a few years ago, with someone I greatly admire, Noam Chomsky, you might have read them already, not sure -

On Israel-Palestine and BDS

and then his very thoughtful responses, once others put questions/comments to him, the questions are included in the body of the piece, so you can see others positions -

On Israel-Palestine and BDS: Chomsky Replies

 

[nooleen]

Does he mention radiohead?

 

[YoungHearts]

Hello, he doesn't specifically mention Radiohead, but the issue isn't really about Radiohead, it's about cultural boycotts,among other things, and the pieces provide a more indepth exploration of that, and of BDS, Israel and Palestine - and I just found the pieces really interesting, reflective, and intelligent, that's it, really. Maybe it should be on another thread, but think they relate.

 

[Lili Marlene]

This isn't about Radiohead but hey, ISRAEL

Nick Cave Calls Israel Boycott “Cowardly and Shameful” in Letter to Brian Eno | Pitchfork

 

[Burgerbarbaby]

This isn't about Radiohead but hey, ISRAEL

Nick Cave Calls Israel Boycott “Cowardly and Shameful” in Letter to Brian Eno | Pitchfork

Fuck him. Pain in the arse.

 

[hermie]

Fuck him. Pain in the arse.

His response is marginally better than Yorke's but no less baffling. I just don't see what's cowardly about BDS? The easiest thing in the world is to just say and do nothing, go along with whatever your booking agent lays out for you. Boycotting is a peaceful but effective way of protesting an abhorrent regime. Ok he's raised money for Palestine but he's still not played there has he? And there's no question that artists going to Israel does lend it a certain amount of legitimacy.

 

[Denny Oubidoux]

Could be that Its cowardly if you think you should play there but you pull out because you're afraid Roger Waters will write an open letter to you... Maybe.... Otherwise I dunno what he means.

 

[hermie]

Could be that Its cowardly if you think you should play there but you pull out because you're afraid Roger Waters will write an open letter to you... Maybe.... Otherwise I dunno what he means.

No he thinks "the cultural boycott of Israel is cowardly and shameful." As in the whole thing.

 

[Unicron]

And there's no question that artists going to Israel does lend it a certain amount of legitimacy.

I think that overstates the importance of musicians a bit.

 

[hermie]

I think that overstates the importance of musicians a bit.

Come on, you don't think this all feeds into their propoganda machine? From the novelists who accept the Jerusalem award to the world famous rock stars who organise concerts there. It's Cave who overstates his own importance but going on about how disgusting it is to deprive Nick Cave fans their chance of seeing him!

 

[Unicron]

Come on, you don't think this all feeds into their propoganda machine? From the novelists who accept the Jerusalem award to the world famous rock stars who organise concerts there. It's Cave who overstates his own importance but going on about how disgusting it is to deprive Nick Cave fans their chance of seeing him!

Genuinely don't. If people don't want to go and perform in Israel because they object to the actions of the government then fair enough, it's a personal decision for them to make. I've declined opportunities to go to Israel for work in the past; but at no point did I think that I or anyone else who didn't make that trip were making a blind bit of difference to the plight of Palestinians.

As for the propaganda part, making musicians who decline to heed what BDS are trying to do an issue also functions as a propoganda tool for Israel as it allows them to further their narrative that poor ickle Israel is being bullied.

 

[hugh]

Nick Cave is a just a little more famous than you dude

If the boycott was totally ineffective and pointless there would hardly be such opposition to it ...

 

[hermie]

Genuinely don't. If people don't want to go and perform in Israel because they object to the actions of the government then fair enough, it's a personal decision for them to make. I've declined opportunities to go to Israel for work in the past; but at no point did I think that I or anyone else who didn't make that trip were making a blind bit of difference to the plight of Palestinians.

As for the propaganda part, making musicians who decline to heed what BDS are trying to do an issue also functions as a propoganda tool for Israel as it allows them to further their narrative that poor ickle Israel is being bullied.

Like for declining to go. Don't agree otherwise. Israel spend massive, massive amounts on attempts to silence any kind of criticism, especially in the West.

 

[ann post]

imagine having 150000 to do anything with.

 

[Unicron]

Nick Cave is a just a little more famous than you dude

Would that make it ok for me to play a gig there for my hobby band music thing as opposed to me not going there for my full time job?

If the boycott was totally ineffective and pointless there would hardly be such opposition to it ...

The opposition to it just feels opportunistic though, they're exploiting the conflict over whether BDS for musicians is a good idea/bad idea/worthwhile endeavour to paint themselves as a victim when they're obviously not.

Israel spend massive, massive amounts on attempts to silence any kind of criticism, especially in the West.

Then why do their work for them? It was probably a bigger PR win for them that Lorde cancelled her gig there then it would have been for her to play it.

I'm concerned that I might be coming off as some sort of rabid pro-Israeli type here. Just to clarify where I'm coming from; not going to play a gig in Israel because of the actions of its government is good and I respect anyone who doesn't do it. Playing the gig, I don't think it's necessarily bad (unless it's in a settlement etc.) because I don't see it as a reputation laundering exercise for Israel as an institution or an endorsement of government policy.

 

[Denny Oubidoux]

I don't see playing there as a endorsement of anything but I do see it as something that inevitably promotes the myth that Israel is a vibrant, functional democracy, something that Nick Cave appears to actually believe. When credible, well-informed people make a point of not playing there (or playing there) I think it prompts people to look a bit more closely and in that sense bds seems to be effective

 

[Unicron]

I don't see playing there as a endorsement of anything but I do see it as something that inevitably promotes the myth that Israel is a vibrant, functional democracy, something that Nick Cave appears to actually believe. When credible, well-informed people make a point of not playing there (or playing there) I think it prompts people to look a bit more closely and in that sense bds seems to be effective

I totally understand how someone can take that position. And if Cave thinks that Israel is a vibrant, functional democracy then he's a fool.

 

[ann post]

See also:

Alt J, The stranglers, the pixies, ringo starr, knower, alice in chains, scorpions, mark lanegan, ziggy marely, die antwoord, jimmy carr, jethro tull, air supply, bon jovi, marc almond, brian wilson...

 

[hugh]

Would that make it ok for me to play a gig there for my hobby band music thing as opposed to me not going there for my full time job?

Well if you are in favour of the boycott then it wouldn't be okay for you to do either of these things but ultimately that's your call.

The opposition to it just feels opportunistic though, they're exploiting the conflict over whether BDS for musicians is a good idea/bad idea/worthwhile endeavour to paint themselves as a victim when they're obviously not.

This is what I find most galling about Cave's comments. He reduces the whole thing to an issue of what musicians should or shouldn't do, whether they are being bullied into doing one thing or another, and effectively ignores the substantive issue of what this is actually about. I was thinking about what you said up the thread about musicians not really being that important and I think that's true. But they are important in the sense that if they do go and play there then they are making an intervention and the more famous they are the more significant that intervention is. I think many of those who do this have one (or both) of two incredibly deluded ideas (a) that they are not taking sides by playing in Israel or (b) that music/art has some transcendent power to "make a difference" or "bring people together". I'm not sure which is more dumb. Meanwhile Netanyahu and co. are laughing their holes off and (as you say) opportunistically exploiting the situation any way they can.

Then why do their work for them? It was probably a bigger PR win for them that Lorde cancelled her gig there then it would have been for her to play it.

I'm concerned that I might be coming off as some sort of rabid pro-Israeli type here. Just to clarify where I'm coming from; not going to play a gig in Israel because of the actions of its government is good and I respect anyone who doesn't do it. Playing the gig, I don't think it's necessarily bad (unless it's in a settlement etc.) because I don't see it as a reputation laundering exercise for Israel as an institution or an endorsement of government policy.

I take your point but I think you are underestimating the significance of major acts playing Tel Aviv.