MUSIC DOWNLOADS ARE KILLING THE SCENE (1 Viewer)

[Corm]

Am I right in saying that, apart from the obvious issue with this guy stealing your album to sell online, you guys also have a problem with MP3s being sold in general? How're they any less valid a media through which to publish music than CDs or Vinyl?? Virtually everyone has an MP3 player. Granted, it'd be more realistic to be selling them at a fraction of the price that that guy's charging, but costs are incurred in both hosting the files and promoting the site.

Yeah, in general. Not with the format, but with them being sold. We sell our records and CDs for the lowest possible price, sometimes for an absolute pittance when we've been in particularly poor countries like Belarus and for higher prices in rich countries like Sweden or Germany. We tend to get 20% of each pressing, so when that's 200 CDs or LPs you can make a good bit of cash back to pay for the losses touring often incurs.

I think mp3s are less valid in terms of selling them because of the value of the artifact that comes with a CD or LP. We take a lot of time and pride in our artwork, layout, and general aesthetic, with posters and patches included and stuff like that. When you buy one of our records, it should be worth it. When you buy files of digital information, there's no real artifact. There's no fucking lyrics even. That's why we put them up for free download, with full lyrics and artwork included so people will get more of a sense of the overall artifact, and so that people in countries like South America or SE Asia (where it's easier to produce tapes and CDR copies of albums than to get/afford the official release) can do their own version of it for themselves or for distros, which is what they've been doing.

The files are hosted on free hosting sites. There's no cost involved other than that of gaining access to the internet. CDs and vinyl cost more to produce and distribute.

 

[dregin]

The files are hosted on free hosting sites. There's no cost involved other than that of gaining access to the internet. CDs and vinyl cost more to produce and distribute.

The costs are covered by ads on those sites. That said, the charge for an album should be closer to $2 than 8. Hosting costs NOTHING close to what that guy must be making charging that much. I just think it's a very good way for a band to get their music to the public at large easily and quickly while giving fans a good opportunity to give something back to the bands they listening to. I know now that most distros are nowhere like this but I remember years ago saving up about €100 and heading off to interpunk to sploosh out on loads of vinyl. Wandered on over to my shopping cart once I'd squeezed as much out of my funds as I could only to find a shipping charge that was almost equal to the amount I'd planned on spending on vinyl.

As for artwork/lyrics... A properly structured MP3 package can have all the artwork you want in it to be displayed as the album's playing on your computer/MP3 player and lyric files to scroll em along with the song. I do, however, know that there's just no comparing that to actually having something physical in your posession. I was amazed at the effort that was obviously put into The Assassinators LP I bought the other night.

I've never bought an MP3 in my life, but I'm pretty much in this discussion because I'm planning on starting an online distro in the few weeks and well.... I'd like it to work and finding out the pros/cons from the people actually buying band merch would be a constructive approach, I think

 

[AnarchoBob]

What? That's like saying a greengrocer can't sell vegeatbles because they didn't go out and plant/pick them themselves...

Nah, the greengrocer PAYS the physical object to the producer (in this case the farmer) and therefore gains the property of that object. Once he obtains the property of that object, also given there is a previuos agreement with the original producer, he can re-sell the object for the price he believes is the right one and allowing to make the profit he see fit. Also, the greengrocer is not offering a service, he is simply offering a good which he gained the right to posses.
With this thing CAH is doing the difference is that he DOES NOT pay the physical object (be it CD, vinyl, tape or digital file) to the original producer (in this case the record label and/or band) and therefore does not have the right of possession of the physical object. What CAH is doing is offering to sell the physical object (that in this case assumes the form of the recording and digital file) for the original producer in return of a small profit made from each sale without actually owning the product he is selling. Pure and simple capitalist concept of profeetering middle-man, which sells a good he doesn't own keeping for himself part of the profits. Add then on top of this the ethical problem of 'intellectual property', which he does not own and at this point i have a problem with people profeetering from selling someones 'intellectual property' (therefore the idea, music and concept of one person's or a group of people's mind) for hard cash.

 

[rotten tropics]

you want people to pay for your instruments?

don't think anyone expects that, but to have reasonable equipment, each member of the band is going to be about 2 grand down before they even get out of the practice space... nevermind renting that space as well...
its fair to bring stuff like that up when you feel like another party is profiteering from your work,the point that just being in a band costs a fuckload more money than buying a domain name and hosting mp3s is valid in this case i think.

 

[Gambra]

One of the other problems I see here is the fact that the labels who put it out are allowing the site to put the stuff up. To me that seems like the labels are assuming that they can allow other site or whoever else to sell the MP3's without even asking NDT. I myself plan to have all my own releases (in 320k MP3 & FLAC) for completely free download but I will not be doing anything of the sort until I actually get permissions from the bands involved. Putting them up with no permission or selling them in another format other than the one agreed with the band seems to assume that the musical content is mine to do whatever I want with which is completely besides the point of DIY labels.

 

[Corm]

Yeah, I think that's an important point. A big difference between the DIY scene and the music industry is that every band (maybe there's 1 in a million who can dictate otherwise) on profit-orientated record labels have their sessions paid for by the label. Legally this means they own those recordings and can do what they want with them. That's why even though it can be tempting if a label offers to pay for your recording session, you should ALWAYS make sure you pay for it yourself and retain ownership of the recordings. Otherwise you can end up rightly fucked. I think the only way to go if you're starting to sell something over 10,000 copies is to set up your own label, and license it for non-exclusive distribution with someone else if you don't have the time, knowledge or inclination to do that yourselves.

 

[subbuteo !]

just a few thoughts on this.

there is a few sites mainly russian non diy connected selling easpa measa mp3s this really pisses me off.but i don't actually think anyone into us would buy them from these sites .esp when they can be found for free on blogs. if i was a hacker or some shit i would try find away to fuck em up!

if a diy band or label(wit bands permission) wants to sell their stuff as mp3s i can't think of a problem with it. its up to people weather they buy them or not.i never buy mp3s but i wouldn't mind supporting a diy band i like in this way.it might help them to pay for all the things corm mentioned earlier.but if i could get a physical copy first i would .

but its fucked for a third party like what this thread is about to be selling someones shit and as gambra said that the label felt they had the right to give permission without asking the band for me its the same as some sneaky labels that do represses of records but don't tell the bands involved.

i don't mind the fact that easpa measa stuff has been put up for free on blogs because i think if someone likes it they might track down and buy the record off skubi etc or simply that they have the music as thats what its about in the end not "collectables" but i wish bloggers would give the lyrics and artwork as well. we will hopefully do something similar to the ndt free download blog eventually.

also mp3s are most enviromentally friendly.

 

[nofunchee]

don't think anyone expects that, but to have reasonable equipment, each member of the band is going to be about 2 grand down before they even get out of the practice space... nevermind renting that space as well...
its fair to bring stuff like that up when you feel like another party is profiteering from your work,the point that just being in a band costs a fuckload more money than buying a domain name and hosting mp3s is valid in this case i think.

Nah, I don't reckon people should have their instruments and all bought for them (nice it would be!), which I think is related to the whole "music is none of my business" approach which is echoed by the FFYM Records statement which Shorty just posted. I think that when you have to finance and maintain your band and music yourself, for its own sake and not for profit, then it is intrinsically more meaningful (also, when your amp and guitar actually cost you the wages of whatever amount of hard work, you're going to love it all the more). It demonstrates that the reason you're doing it is not for money (even though you could make a strong argument that people do it for other status-related concerns: popularity, acceptance, free sex etc).

My point was that when someone makes money off the back of our record, which we're happy to have made not-for-profit, especially when they're using various rhetoric like in that guy's message to demonstrate why punks should do this and why it's DIY, well then you can't leave out the fact that it costs money to be in a band, such as in buying & maintaining instruments and a backline, and if anyone's getting any money out of it, it should be the band and the band alone.

ah yeah, fair enough i guess. i suppose when someone can make money off yer music it becomes more of an issue. i don't have that problem

best of luck with getting it sorted anyhow.

 

[FERGLOR]

hang on... your giving out cause he is selling NDT mp3s on his website, which are available on your blog for free?? and some people are stupid enough to pay for it in that way?

dont get me wrong, what this guy is doing is fucked up and reprehensible, but if the consumer isnt willing to "shop around" as such, that's their loss.

 

[Corm]

Their loss...but his gain. No profit before the people!!

 

[rotten tropics]

d-beat is beyond consumer and consumption, it is metaphysical art situated on a higher plane of existence.

 

[Corm]

True 'nuff, cuz. The d-beat originates in the medulla nocte of man's primordial bestialism, and completes in an alcohol-hazed heap on front of the stage.

 

[FERGLOR]

and i thought i was just gonna get given out to for using "consumer" in relation to punx but now it seems objectionable on an introspective psychological and philosphical level.


cool!

 

[Willie Willions]

"also mp3s are most enviromentally friendly."

I'd say they're probably the least environmentally friendly - think about all the computers, servers, networks, phone-lines, power-generation etc that have to be in place to facilitate mp3s.

 

[the strange guy]

There's a positive correlation between the rise in popularity in mp3s and Al Qaeda attacks around the world.
If you think that's a coincidence you should read some fucking books.

 

[dregin]

One server can host hundreds of websites, tbh.

 

[subbuteo !]

"also mp3s are most enviromentally friendly."

I'd say they're probably the least environmentally friendly - think about all the computers, servers, networks, phone-lines, power-generation etc that have to be in place to facilitate mp3s.

they were there anyway and would be if there was no mp3's.they are not a result of mp3s.
now i know ipods etc are made but they don't have to be bought for people to use mp's.


where as records, cds and tapes all have to be made (out of petrol chemicals) and also require things been made just to play them.

 

[Gambra]

One server can host hundreds of websites, tbh.

Yeah, maybe a few hundred geocities sites.. It'd need to be a fair monster of a machine to host a couple of hundred band sites hosting downloads.

 

[dregin]

http://wiki.redbrick.dcu.ie/mw/Minerva

Storeage is on another box, though....

 

[Gambra]

Wasn't one/most of those rooted a while back?

Or am I not supposed to know about that.