Minor Pleasures (29 Viewers)

It's all about how the dog is trained and brought up. Nurture over nature



once they are well trained I Don't see how it's any different to any other dog in an office
I’ve been a behavioural neuroscientist for over 15 years and have taught the genetics of behaviour for about a third of that time. I use pit bulls as a classic example of how genetics can define behaviour.

You can’t unring the bell of generations of selective breeding through responsible training and ownership. When an animal is sick or stressed or scared or threatened, it is going to revert to its “natural” tendencies. That’s true for a rat, for a person, and for a pit bull.

If it wasn’t true, then the Irish Guide Dogs would be using a far wider variety of dogs for their service programmes but they pick labradors because they have been bred for docility and ease of training.

It’s not nurture over nature, it’s reinforcing nature through selective breeding and training can only move the needle so much in any breed or species and to think you can is sheer hubris.
 
couldn't tell you what breed it was but about 10 or 15 years ago, i bumped into a chap, Larry, i hadn't seen in a couple of years. he was telling me he hadn't spoken to his parents in law for about 18 months, nor they to him.
he'd been down their end of the world and their dog attacked his 7 year old daughter; who needed i think 8 stitches in her cheek. his father in law's reaction was 'but she got between him and his food', and his in laws blamed larry for the dog having to be put down when he was quite clear what happened after he had to bring his daughter to tralee general.
 
It isn't. It's the dog. That's the problem.
Even if you have good owners there's still cases of them going off the rails and killing.

Besides, why should I have to trust someone else being a "good" owner? That's not a reasonable expectation, it's me holding a gun up to your head and saying "relax, I don't think it's loaded". I don't want an animal that's capable of inflicting the level of damage that pitbulls can, and do, around me.
If people want to keep crocodiles or bears or pitbulls that's their perogative. They don't get to inflict that risk on other people.

I mean, the statistics are simple:


Pitbulls are less than 20% of the dogs in the US, and are responsible for ~2/3s of deaths. That's people, and deaths. The numbers of attacks are astronomical, and they attack other dogs and animals too. My kids watched my friend's dog get picked up by it's face and flung around by a pitbull in the US. Cops weren't interested because nobody died. The pitbull and owner suffered no consequences, and the incident was not recorded.

They're bred to specifically to fight, and be exceptionally violent and strong, and guess what? They are. I don't get how people can be defending these animals.

Yeah we're not going to agree on this

I’ve been a behavioural neuroscientist for over 15 years and have taught the genetics of behaviour for about a third of that time. I use pit bulls as a classic example of how genetics can define behaviour.

You can’t unring the bell of generations of selective breeding through responsible training and ownership. When an animal is sick or stressed or scared or threatened, it is going to revert to its “natural” tendencies. That’s true for a rat, for a person, and for a pit bull.

If it wasn’t true, then the Irish Guide Dogs would be using a far wider variety of dogs for their service programmes but they pick labradors because they have been bred for docility and ease of training.

It’s not nurture over nature, it’s reinforcing nature through selective breeding and training can only move the needle so much in any breed or species and to think you can is sheer hubris.


Completely disagree. I know you know your shit but I've known and met a lot of restricted breeds over the last feew years and everyone single one of them have been A1 with regards to being controlled, - always recallable and never aggressive.I I can only go on my own experience

People don’t drive dogs, dogs have their own agency despite whatever ego the owner might have.

Yeah I take your point, but it's still a thing you control, that you take responsibility for and know its limits and how it should be handled to give the best results
 
couldn't tell you what breed it was but about 10 or 15 years ago, i bumped into a chap, Larry, i hadn't seen in a couple of years. he was telling me he hadn't spoken to his parents in law for about 18 months, nor they to him.
he'd been down their end of the world and their dog attacked his 7 year old daughter; who needed i think 8 stitches in her cheek. his father in law's reaction was 'but she got between him and his food', and his in laws blamed larry for the dog having to be put down when he was quite clear what happened after he had to bring his daughter to tralee general.

Ah that's horrible irrespective of breed.
 
Yeah we're not going to agree on this




Completely disagree. I know you know your shit but I've known and met a lot of restricted breeds over the last feew years and everyone single one of them have been A1 with regards to being controlled, - always recallable and never aggressive.I I can only go on my own experience



Yeah I take your point, but it's still a thing you control, that you take responsibility for and know its limits and how it should be handled to give the best results

How many pitbulls have you met over the last few years?
 
I'm saying in my experience, smaller dogs tend to be more aggressive

Remind me the last time a chihuahua ripped out someone's throat. I don't care if a Jack Russel goes for me, it's not getting through my boots.

You can ignore the genetics, you can ignore the numbers, you can go 100% only your own experience and ignore everything else, but you don't get to inflict what you deem to be acceptable risk for you on other people.
 
How many pitbulls have you met over the last few years?

I just looked up pitbulls and I have actually been mixing them up with Staffordshire bull terriers.

Have we been talking about the American pitbulls dog the whole time?!
Fuck, sorry.
My points are massively flawed now.


I have not met any pitbulls.
The size of them scares the shit out of me.


I have met about a dozen staffies.
Few rotties
Few dobermans
countless alsations
Few malamutes
Few Great Danes
All of them wonderful^
 
I just looked up pitbulls and I have actually been mixing them up with Staffordshire bull terriers.

Have we been talking about the American pitbulls dog the whole time?!
Fuck, sorry.
My points are massively flawed now.


I have not met any pitbulls.
The size of them scares the shit out of me.


I have met about a dozen staffies.
Few rotties
Few dobermans
countless alsations
Few malamutes
Few Great Danes
All of them wonderful^

Good lad.
 
I just looked up pitbulls and I have actually been mixing them up with Staffordshire bull terriers.

Have we been talking about the American pitbulls dog the whole time?!
Fuck, sorry.
My points are massively flawed now.


I have not met any pitbulls.
The size of them scares the shit out of me.


I have met about a dozen staffies.
Few rotties
Few dobermans
countless alsations
Few malamutes
Few Great Danes
All of them wonderful^
Honestly mate I'd never seen them until I went to the US.
I thought I knew what they were, and I thought my mate had one, which was a wonderful dog.

Then I saw them, and understood what the story was.
 
i think i once heard a bill murray quote along the lines of 'when i meet a human that does not like a dog, i don't trust them, but when i meet a dog that does not like a human, i trust them'.

he hasn't met some of the dogs i've met. our neighbour's dog, a corgi, is a hateful little shit, and my parents-in-law's dog, a rottweiler, is a stupid piece of shit.
though we keep telling them to get another dog, they won't listen.
 

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