-
Welcome, guest!
Why not take a moment to register an account?
If you already have an account, remember to Log In!
Leonard Cohen - Songs of Love and Hate (1970) (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter pete
- Start date
- Replies 44
- Views 6K
- Watchers 4
ha ha, amazing
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2000
- Messages
- 5,971
- Solutions
- 1
Listened once yesterday. The opener Avalanche is great. Serious Scott Walker vibe which I didn't expect. Rest of it didn't grab me so much but will give it a second go.
That Greatest Hits album was the bane of my life at one point as my older sister owned it and used to play it endlessly. Drove me mental and pretty much put me off LC for life. Hopefully I'm over that now.
That Greatest Hits album was the bane of my life at one point as my older sister owned it and used to play it endlessly. Drove me mental and pretty much put me off LC for life. Hopefully I'm over that now.
nooleen
bad ape
I'm sitting here listening to this album again, paralyzed by awe. Tears streaming down my face, which I take to be a good sign.
I first came into contact with Leonard Cohen as an impressionable late-teen, and the songs on this album consoled and provoked me. I hope my own kids find LC when they need it in their lives.
I first came into contact with Leonard Cohen as an impressionable late-teen, and the songs on this album consoled and provoked me. I hope my own kids find LC when they need it in their lives.
my introduction to Cohen was working way my way through my dads vinyls collection FYI.
I found it quite nice to listen to this so often in the week since he passed. I've possibly listened 15 times at this stage and while it was sad enough going at first, I think I'm getting beyond that and am starting to take a lot of positivity from the songs on here.
I remember listening to Dave Fanning on the radio years ago. He was chatting to someone (one of these lads who are 'experts' on everything), and the topic of Leonard Cohen came up. Yer man said he wouldn't ever listen to LC because its was music to slit your wrists to. Depressing as hell. Fanning's reaction was class. He pretty much told yer man that if he thought that about Cohen's music that;
1) he was completely missing the point of the songs
2) he was an idiot
He said that Cohen's music is joyous. His lyrics are joyous and that if you don't take the time to try and appreciate them, you're doing yourself a disservice.
I tend to agree. His songs are often maudlin sounding and can, on the face of it, seem a tad gloomy, but they're not at all.
The 3 'Songs' albums are generally considered Cohen's best albums. Not to say that other albums aren't amazing but with these 3 he really nailed his sound, and made the world take notice of who he was. And no offence to anyone who isn't 18 anymore, but I'm always amazed at how fresh these songs sound given his age when he released them. he was 36/37 when he released this album and I'm sure he was still considered a 'newcomer'. How many other people has this happened for - that they only started releasing music into their 30s, and would go on to be huge? I can't think of anyone.
And though the 3 'Songs' albums are generally considered his best, something I do agree with, they wouldn't be my favourites. I said it in the other LC thread that I came across him in the late-80s, just as 'I'm Your Man' was released, and again in the early 90s when 'The Future' was released. Both of those albums have a special place in my heart, for nostalgic reasons as much as anything else (though I still don't like/get 'Jazz Police' - sorry).
Every household in Ireland seemed to have a copy of 'Greatest Hits'. That and the Pope's Visit to Ireland, on LP. Mine didn't (we had the Pope's one, but not LC's). I bought it as I was working my way back through his catalog from my starting point. It was a while after that I went out and bought the actual albums that most of the songs are taken from. But I did, finally.
Those first 3 albums were never really on heavy rotation with me, not because I didn't like them. The opposite - I loved them. I just found that there was little point listening unless you were in a position to actually sit down and 'really' listen. Cohen's music doesn't work as background music. I'd find my mind drifting.
Which is why this past week has been great. I've put the album on twice each morning and maybe once or twice in the evening while doing little else. To just sit down and do nothing other than take in the songs, the lyrics, the music. The songs are simple, yet complicated. For the most part they lack any recognisable structure, devoid of verses and choruses. A lot of it is stream of consciousness stuff, dissimiliar to anything else really - well except in some cases of poetry being made into song (I feel a new thread coming on).
'Songs of Love and Hate' is a great collection of songs. As an album, for me, it doesn't flow seamlessly. But, the strength of the songs makes that not matter so much. For example, the intro to 'Sing Another Song, Boys' often tempts me to skip the song. 30 seconds later, I'm loving it.
There's a great mix of emotion on here. The gentleness of 'Famous Blue Raincoat', the tenderness of 'Avalance' and 'Joan of Arc', the passion of 'Diamonds in the Mine'.
Just on the lyrics. I listen to the words and I appreciate how poetic they sound, and how beautifully he puts sentences together, how he can articulate simple things in the most beautiful way. However, I wouldn't have much of a clue what most of the songs are about. But thats never been anything I've placed too much importance on. If it's pleasing to the ear, thats good enough for me.
The exception being 'Famous Blue Raincoat'. Clearly thats simply a letter to someone, beautifully descriptive of both mood and place. I recall that the 'Greatest Hits' collection included some text on each song where he explains what each one on there was about. I can't recall any specifics, but I do remember being none the wiser in many cases. A lot of these songs are obviously quite personal so does it really matter what they're about? I don't think so.
The other thing about Cohen is that, if you watch any of the old Montreal footage from the 70s and 80s that's been doing the rounds (there was one video in particular that pitchfork were streaming for a while), just to hear him speak is amazing. This guy was clearly on a different level. Every time he opens his mouth, it seems he couldn't but speak in the most poetic way, even in talking about the most mundane things. It makes you think that penning the amazing lyrics he did was probably something that came effortlessly. And you have to envy that. I often imagined Oscar Wilde to have been like that - that he would talk as he wrote. I guess thats what separates them from the rest of us.
I'm rambling a bit now.
Just lastly on this. I remember that Hal Wilner gig in the Point years back (the 'They came so far for beauty'). One of the first performances that night was Nick Cave singing 'Avalanche'. The Handsome Family played 'Famous Blue Raincoat'. The full setlist for that show is here "Came so far for Beauty" in Dublin. That was a hell of a show, thinking back on it. It went on and on and on. Anyway, point being, I always had a special gra for 'Avalanche' after hearing Cave sing it. And by extension I think that have me a special gra for this album.
Christ this post is rambling.
Good man Leonard
5/5
I remember listening to Dave Fanning on the radio years ago. He was chatting to someone (one of these lads who are 'experts' on everything), and the topic of Leonard Cohen came up. Yer man said he wouldn't ever listen to LC because its was music to slit your wrists to. Depressing as hell. Fanning's reaction was class. He pretty much told yer man that if he thought that about Cohen's music that;
1) he was completely missing the point of the songs
2) he was an idiot
He said that Cohen's music is joyous. His lyrics are joyous and that if you don't take the time to try and appreciate them, you're doing yourself a disservice.
I tend to agree. His songs are often maudlin sounding and can, on the face of it, seem a tad gloomy, but they're not at all.
The 3 'Songs' albums are generally considered Cohen's best albums. Not to say that other albums aren't amazing but with these 3 he really nailed his sound, and made the world take notice of who he was. And no offence to anyone who isn't 18 anymore, but I'm always amazed at how fresh these songs sound given his age when he released them. he was 36/37 when he released this album and I'm sure he was still considered a 'newcomer'. How many other people has this happened for - that they only started releasing music into their 30s, and would go on to be huge? I can't think of anyone.
And though the 3 'Songs' albums are generally considered his best, something I do agree with, they wouldn't be my favourites. I said it in the other LC thread that I came across him in the late-80s, just as 'I'm Your Man' was released, and again in the early 90s when 'The Future' was released. Both of those albums have a special place in my heart, for nostalgic reasons as much as anything else (though I still don't like/get 'Jazz Police' - sorry).
Every household in Ireland seemed to have a copy of 'Greatest Hits'. That and the Pope's Visit to Ireland, on LP. Mine didn't (we had the Pope's one, but not LC's). I bought it as I was working my way back through his catalog from my starting point. It was a while after that I went out and bought the actual albums that most of the songs are taken from. But I did, finally.
Those first 3 albums were never really on heavy rotation with me, not because I didn't like them. The opposite - I loved them. I just found that there was little point listening unless you were in a position to actually sit down and 'really' listen. Cohen's music doesn't work as background music. I'd find my mind drifting.
Which is why this past week has been great. I've put the album on twice each morning and maybe once or twice in the evening while doing little else. To just sit down and do nothing other than take in the songs, the lyrics, the music. The songs are simple, yet complicated. For the most part they lack any recognisable structure, devoid of verses and choruses. A lot of it is stream of consciousness stuff, dissimiliar to anything else really - well except in some cases of poetry being made into song (I feel a new thread coming on).
'Songs of Love and Hate' is a great collection of songs. As an album, for me, it doesn't flow seamlessly. But, the strength of the songs makes that not matter so much. For example, the intro to 'Sing Another Song, Boys' often tempts me to skip the song. 30 seconds later, I'm loving it.
There's a great mix of emotion on here. The gentleness of 'Famous Blue Raincoat', the tenderness of 'Avalance' and 'Joan of Arc', the passion of 'Diamonds in the Mine'.
Just on the lyrics. I listen to the words and I appreciate how poetic they sound, and how beautifully he puts sentences together, how he can articulate simple things in the most beautiful way. However, I wouldn't have much of a clue what most of the songs are about. But thats never been anything I've placed too much importance on. If it's pleasing to the ear, thats good enough for me.
The exception being 'Famous Blue Raincoat'. Clearly thats simply a letter to someone, beautifully descriptive of both mood and place. I recall that the 'Greatest Hits' collection included some text on each song where he explains what each one on there was about. I can't recall any specifics, but I do remember being none the wiser in many cases. A lot of these songs are obviously quite personal so does it really matter what they're about? I don't think so.
The other thing about Cohen is that, if you watch any of the old Montreal footage from the 70s and 80s that's been doing the rounds (there was one video in particular that pitchfork were streaming for a while), just to hear him speak is amazing. This guy was clearly on a different level. Every time he opens his mouth, it seems he couldn't but speak in the most poetic way, even in talking about the most mundane things. It makes you think that penning the amazing lyrics he did was probably something that came effortlessly. And you have to envy that. I often imagined Oscar Wilde to have been like that - that he would talk as he wrote. I guess thats what separates them from the rest of us.
I'm rambling a bit now.
Just lastly on this. I remember that Hal Wilner gig in the Point years back (the 'They came so far for beauty'). One of the first performances that night was Nick Cave singing 'Avalanche'. The Handsome Family played 'Famous Blue Raincoat'. The full setlist for that show is here "Came so far for Beauty" in Dublin. That was a hell of a show, thinking back on it. It went on and on and on. Anyway, point being, I always had a special gra for 'Avalanche' after hearing Cave sing it. And by extension I think that have me a special gra for this album.
Christ this post is rambling.
Good man Leonard
5/5
have only had time for one listen so far. I wasn't fully paying attention and musically it didn't grab me until Famous Blue Raincoat. So I got the lyrics out for that one and really loved it.
More work required on my end.
More work required on my end.
nooleen
bad ape
every track's a great one on this...famous blue raincoat is my favourite
the only bit i don't like is the cringey lyrics about leonard having an awkward three-way with babylon and bethlehem
the only bit i don't like is the cringey lyrics about leonard having an awkward three-way with babylon and bethlehem
don't knock it til you've tried it
Cohen's band for those sessions used to call him the Jazz Police as he'd stop them including anything jazzy in the arrangements. The song is an in-joke about the whole thing. It's definitely the weakest on the album but there's a bit of context for you.
I wasn't able to go to that, I really wanted to but can't remember why I couldn't, possibly the price. Didn't realise it was 10 years ago at this stage! I have the soundtrack album Leonard Cohen: I'm Your Man that documented another one of those shows and it's great. Aside from U2 covering "Tower of Song". Anyway, Nick Cave has a version of "Avalanche" on his first album with the Bad Seeds that makes the original sound positively cheery.
And in googling for that song, I found that he's done another version of it for some TV show that is completely different, I'm going to guess it's more like the version from Came So Far for Beauty (it's not on the soundtrack album so can't compare).
It was a strange show. It felt more like being at a theatrical production than a gig. It was all polite clapping with everyone staying seated, still and silent during the songs. At one point a lad behind me started singing along loudly to one of the songs. Nothing wrong with singing along, but because everyone else was so quiet, it felt like he was taking the piss. No shit, but someone actually went out and complained about him and he was fucked out.
At one point Hal Wilner came out, said his speil, and we thought there was a song or 2 left as an encore. We were still there an hour later. The place was half empty by then cos loads had gone to get the last bus home.
It was great, but at 4 hours long, was a bit of an endurance test.
David Kronenbourg
Well-Known Member
This album is a beaut. 5/5 from me.
Here, this is a fantastic post. 5/5. I watched a video earlier of him speaking French, he wasn't quite as effortlessly poetic in French it seems.
I am listening to the album now. Was familiar with a few songs from that (in)famous best of. A bit like listening to early Lou Reed/VU, one thing that blasts out of it is its influence on a lot of what came later. The sardonicism, the all but self-parodying vocal style, in particular were blueprints for whole swathes of later era musicians.
One thing I took from Cohen as a songwriter was the idea of humour in a song without the primary mode of the song being humorous.
Another thing about Cohen and his relative ancientness when he came to the fore, I feel his songs possess layers of emotion and meaning that would be quite difficult (but of course not impossible) for a younger songwriter to articulate and impart. There is a vague archness to his delivery but not too much that it sinks the ship.
One thing I took from Cohen as a songwriter was the idea of humour in a song without the primary mode of the song being humorous.
Another thing about Cohen and his relative ancientness when he came to the fore, I feel his songs possess layers of emotion and meaning that would be quite difficult (but of course not impossible) for a younger songwriter to articulate and impart. There is a vague archness to his delivery but not too much that it sinks the ship.
that's a great point - about his age and having maturity when writing. And on his humour, its so self-deprecating at times whereas at other times he has no issue bestowing greatness on himself - "I'm the little Jew who wrote the bible" - "I was born like this, I had no choice, I was born with the gift of a golden voice."
I remember when I was getting into this album, around the same time I was on holiday over in America. I took a Chinatown bus from Boston to New York. That leaves you (obviously) in Chinatown, which is towards the south of Manhattan island. I was staying in Midtown and decided to walk the 15 or so blocks. But I remember passing Clinton St, and seeing the Chelsea Hotel, and I recall it bringing a whole other layer of realness to the songs. It's not as if they weren't already very visual songs (in the sense of mental imagery it might conjure), but it was off the scales after that.
Another thing that brought the songs even more to life than they already were, were those gigs he played. When he appeared on stage he had such sincerity and humility. So much so that he kept introducing the band after *every* song. It would have been annoying if it wasn't so damn endearing. But it gave an idea of the character of the genius behind these amazing songs. These songs will stand the test of time.
They said about Bowie that, weren't we lucky to have lived at the same time as he did. I'd certainly say the same of L.Cohen.
Users who are viewing this thread
Activity
So far there's no one here
21 Day Calendar
Similar threads
Support thumped.com
Support thumped.com and upgrade your account
Upgrade your account now to disable all ads...
Upgrade now
