Joy Division - Unknown Pleasures (1979) (1 Viewer)

prefuse

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2007
Threads
196
Messages
4,953
I agree. Not everything has to sound the same.
I also agree, but that young pup Lili needs to understand that some of the older forum members have a hard time understanding this mad modern music. We're grew up with Perry Como, Max Bygraves, that kind of stuff.
 

hydromancer

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Joined
Jan 16, 2010
Threads
18
Messages
3,658
I sounds as it should cold and bleak. I like some of the more experimental noise's and guitar sounds going on there. It is a bit patchy though and maybe even basic sounding but I get how it might have been something different at the time or even contrary to allot of other music from the 70s. It has loads of tension and atmosphere of course there is a desperation in there but also the feeling of a possible imminent release that sometimes just fizzles out. Its edgy and dark too sometimes his vocals even get close to shouting it's maybe the kind of the stuff that appeals emotionally to a younger audience. I could think of lots of adjectives for it a gloominess with a determination that is unsure where it wants to go.. I might give it another go probably I am even mostly thinking of Closer.
 

hugh

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Contributor
Joined
Dec 9, 2000
Threads
224
Messages
5,518
I've only really listened to JD in passing over the years. Don't dislike them but have never bought into their iconic status. They are the kind of band I occasionally feel like I would love but on cursory attempts to get into them they have left me pretty cold. Which maybe is the point. Actually now that I think of it the first time I heard them was on some cassette my older brother had (way back) and there was a song with a really weird drum pattern and bass-line the likes of which I'd never heard before which totally blew me away. Whenever I have checked them out since I've been looking for that track and never found it.

Anyway, I own both this and Closer on vinyl, so gave it yet another spin last night and I'm liking it much more than I ever have previously. The production is amazing. I love the atmospheric stuff that pops in and out randomly at times and don't see the problem with the drum sound. It's obviously supposed to sound like that. The doom-laden drama of it get's a bit trying at times but that comes with the territory too.

It also occurs to me that my indifference towards them is probably rooted in the fact that so many bands in Dublin in the mid-80s were trying to sound like this but doing it really badly and I mostly hated them all. Not Joy Division's fault though.
 

Nate Champion

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2006
Threads
82
Messages
1,312
Location
Tokyo
Hannett is a huge part of what makes Joy Division so good. Equally, they were the perfect band to bring out the best in him - these albums are head and shoulders above his other production jobs.
Woah there. That's mad talk. What about A Certain Ratio's To Each?

A much-maligned band in some quarters, but how I don't know.

Although some reckon Hannett tried to make it sound like Joy Division. They both share that odd vocal thing - Mancunians aping Jim Morrison in a glacial tone.


Maybe in Hannett's mind, he was trying to prove he was the auteur of the Factory scene, yielding them all to this distinctively dreary but propulsive aesthetic like a post-punk Robert Altman steamrolling his own collection of thicko actors into his monomaniac vision.
 

Cornu Ammonis

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Contributor
Joined
Feb 1, 2011
Threads
28
Messages
6,390
Location
Dublin
Website
brainwashed.com
I need to listen to ACR again. I listened to them back when I was teenager and totally immersed in the Joy Division/New Order story and I didn't like them.
 

Nate Champion

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2006
Threads
82
Messages
1,312
Location
Tokyo
I need to listen to ACR again. I listened to them back when I was teenager and totally immersed in the Joy Division/New Order story and I didn't like them.
Do me one favour. Start with Sextet first. For me, even with the conspicuous production and vocal comparisons, To Each is amazing especially tracks like The Fox and Forced Laughter. But if you're coming at it from a bias against them, best to start with a non-Hannett produced one.

Then again, bah. Sextet is definitely free of the murk of Hannett. They seem more like a band coming out of the Bristol post-punk scene, Maximum Joy, Rip, Rig & Panic et al, which given their instrumental flavour is a better comparison than the starker Manchester scene.

They are a sincerely exotic proposition which makes To Each such a weird blend given the Hannett-handed production. Just those claustrophobic Jim Morrison in deep freeze vocals.... Were they, Hannett or Factory conspicuously pressing something there? Were they taking the piss out of Curtis? Was Hannett taking the piss out of everyone?

"This is something that only happens in the niiiiiight."

Impossible not to think of Curtis on Forced Laughter, but were they parodying the more literary merits of Curtis from the standpoint of being superior, more cerebral musicians?

Then again, the whole goth thing was in full swing by then?

I'm just surmising out loud. For me, post-punk culture is quite imbalanced in terms of who gets held up as iconic and representative of an "era", whilst loads of bands who lacked a commodifiable (sic) star quality or straight-up anthemic thrust get left to some obscure cult appeal at best.

Mark Stewart has as much genuine star appeal as Curtis and to be fair The Pop Group had the tunes. But only post-punk fanatics even know them...


Anyway, bizarrely ACR had three top ten hits in their post-punk heyday.
 
Last edited:

Lili Marlene

Wanna Get Out
Supporter
Contributor
Joined
Oct 14, 2002
Threads
288
Messages
25,504
Location
Way beyond the Rubicon
The best post-punk band were The Monochrome Set - so good that Simon Reynolds forgot to include them in his book, thus making them the edgiest bunch of edgelords in most edgelord scene in existence. The Pop Group WISH they could have that amount of cred.
 

nuke terrorist

Active Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2004
Threads
10
Messages
760
Location
'north munster'
Do me one favour. Start with Sextet first. For me, even with the conspicuous production and vocal comparisons, To Each is amazing especially tracks like The Fox and Forced Laughter. But if you're coming at it from a bias against them, best to start with a non-Hannett produced one.

Then again, bah. Sextet is definitely free of the murk of Hannett. They seem more like a band coming out of the Bristol post-punk scene, Maximum Joy, Rip, Rig & Panic et al, which given their instrumental flavour is a better comparison than the starker Manchester scene.

They are a sincerely exotic proposition which makes To Each such a weird blend given the Hannett-handed production. Just those claustrophobic Jim Morrison in deep freeze vocals.... Were they, Hannett or Factory conspicuously pressing something there? Were they taking the piss out of Curtis? Was Hannett taking the piss out of everyone?

"This is something that only happens in the niiiiiight."

Impossible not to think of Curtis on Forced Laughter, but were they parodying the more literary merits of Curtis from the standpoint of being superior, more cerebral musicians?

Then again, the whole goth thing was in full swing by then?

I'm just surmising out loud. For me, post-punk culture is quite imbalanced in terms of who gets held up as iconic and representative of an "era", whilst loads of bands who lacked a commodifiable (sic) star quality or straight-up anthemic thrust get left to some obscure cult appeal at best.

Mark Stewart has as much genuine star appeal as Curtis and to be fair The Pop Group had the tunes. But only post-punk fanatics even know them...


Anyway, bizarrely ACR had three top ten hits in their post-punk heyday.
Indie chart hits ?
ACR from 1979-82 were amazing.
the 7" version of Knife Slits Water is one of the best things i've ever heard.
after '82 they made a conscious decision to move in a more commercial
less post punk direction.

did you get those two archive/compilation releases that came out since last
year on Mute ? they cover their whole career up to present day.
let me know what you think if you've heard them.
yep, i haven't got them yet.

at Sugar Club last year i hoped they would play more early material
but still it was very enjoyable. they're back there on November 2 2019.

might post some of Hannett's other work and some of Factory's lesser
known greats here when i get time.

POP GROUP are awesome too. even influenced BIRTHDAY PARTY.
they were on cover of NME they were still unknown and had a lot
good will towards them but refused to persue a conventional
music career.
when they played in Dublin a few years ago it spilled rain that
night and i didn't go sadly.

really like early MONOCHROME SET early stuff.
never got the credit for influencing a lot of better known bands.
Bid still an amazing looking guy.
 

Nate Champion

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2006
Threads
82
Messages
1,312
Location
Tokyo
Indie chart hits ?
ACR from 1979-82 were amazing.
the 7" version of Knife Slits Water is one of the best things i've ever heard.
after '82 they made a conscious decision to move in a more commercial
less post punk direction.

did you get those two archive/compilation releases that came out since last
year on Mute ? they cover their whole career up to present day.
let me know what you think if you've heard them.
yep, i haven't got them yet.

at Sugar Club last year i hoped they would play more early material
but still it was very enjoyable. they're back there on November 2 2019.

might post some of Hannett's other work and some of Factory's lesser
known greats here when i get time.

POP GROUP are awesome too. even influenced BIRTHDAY PARTY.
they were on cover of NME they were still unknown and had a lot
good will towards them but refused to persue a conventional
music career.
when they played in Dublin a few years ago it spilled rain that
night and i didn't go sadly.

really like early MONOCHROME SET early stuff.
never got the credit for influencing a lot of better known bands.
Bid still an amazing looking guy.
Cool, will check that compilation out when I get time.

Mark Stewart... massive respect. Politically and musically radical. And perhaps we are going through an era where his attitude is extremely relevant...now. Weirdly sound like a skronky no-wave outfit, and they are like a more uncontrolled, but somehow tightly controlled variant of that James Chance vibe... I mean, given the intensity of what they were about, wasn't exactly built for commodification?

Could go down rabbitholes here with the emotional/politic viewpoint. Mission of Burma were a great example of a band that seemed to naturally blend both concerns - political awareness wrapped in a mika bomb of existential despair.

That's the beauty of a lot of post-punk. That resistance to being subsumed into a meaningless commodity culture.

The Monochrome Set ...must give them a thorough listen. Googled yer man, Bid in his post-punk heyday. He is a proper lash of a male ride. Where's that horn thread??

Simon Reynolds can fuck off. He also was dismissive of Swans in that book.
 

Nate Champion

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2006
Threads
82
Messages
1,312
Location
Tokyo
Can't seem to edit the post, but that anecdote about Roger Miller and Clint Conley meeting dancing towards each other in a kitchen of some gaff to the Ramones seems to epitomise the naive energy of both punk and post-punk.

Capitalism can't undermine the innocence of true belief yadayada...or something more articulate when I'm sober. And good art is built on... Right, I'm out of here.
 

Lili Marlene

Wanna Get Out
Supporter
Contributor
Joined
Oct 14, 2002
Threads
288
Messages
25,504
Location
Way beyond the Rubicon
In all honesty i was kind of joking about the Monochrome Set (although i do like em), i was kind of taken aback by the idea that a band as wilfully difficult as The Pop Group could have been as big as Joy Division. Look I'm sorry but no, not in a million years, where's your Love Will Tear Us Apart?

Its a common complaint by fans of post punk bands (or in the case of Wire, members of the band) that IT'S JUST NOT FAIR that they never sold a million records despite usually spending their first three or so albums being purposely obtuse, difficult and musically antagonistic to the point that their only fans are lads who write zines/post on message boards.

Surely thirty years of critical acclaim by intense young men makes up for the fact that they weren't competing with Dollar on the charts?
 

nuke terrorist

Active Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2004
Threads
10
Messages
760
Location
'north munster'
meant to do this when this thread was still in full flight but now
will have to do.
various early Factory related gems -

the studio tracks on the Still LP don't get much attention but IMO some of
these were good perfectly enough to be on JD's albums and this is some
of Hannett's best production work :

the 1980 comp. on Crepuscule 'From Brussels With Love' had this Martin Hannett
solo track recorded in 1978 - The Music Room'

more Martin Hannett - this is a collection of recordings released in 2017 called
'Homage To Delia Derbyshire'. i haven't got this but it does what it says on tin.

A CERTAIN RATIO - Knife Slits Water 7" version video (1982)
there is a 12" version with Martha 'Tilly' Tilson singing but this is drummer
Donald Johnson singing (and playing bass) on this
sorry about video quality but no one has ever posted a better version sadly.

ACR - Forced Laugh video from 1980.
also low fi but cool imagery to go with great music.
there are many other ACR tracks i could choose.

CRISPY AMBULANCE - Drug Pusher Drug User (Peel Session Jan. 1981)

CRISPY AMBULANCE - The Wind Season (1982) from The Plateau Phase LP
again this band had many great songs some much looser and with wider
influences then these two tracks.


hailing from Ashington in the NE (home of Jack and Bobby Charlton)
CRAWLING CHAOS were one of those early DIY bands who like
the Messthetics bands released oddball tapes with song titles
like 'Harry Secombe's Coming To Tea'. somehow Tony Wilson
like them and signed them. lovable eccentrics they even had a
heavy metal song called - Heavy Lovin'.
Hannett was not best pleased the label would release somerhing so
low fi. this song seems to be about getting a testicles transplant
and reminds me of THROBBING GRISTLE and maybe FOETUS' early stuff ?
CRAWLING CHAOS - Sex Machine

Brussels band the NAMES recorded B side 'I Wish I Could Speak Your Language'
with Martin Hannett.
the first version here is the finished mix which sounds very compressed.
the second rough mix version was found and added to the CD reissue
it has huge wall of sound feel.
essential listen for anyone interested in how Martin Hannett worked.
great tune too.

named after a Korg drum machine MINNY POPS from Amsterdam came
out of punk band the TITS (who released a very expensive 7") and ran
Plurex Records which released a huge amount of music.
they already had one LP out when Factory took notice.
the band has reformed and somehow SLASH personally
asked them to open for him a a Hammersmith gig a few years ago (look it up).
MINNY POPS - Dolphin's Spurt (1981)

MINNY POPS - 'A Feeling'
from 1982 LP Sparks In A Dark Room (Factory Benelux)

I could go on doing this all day but that's enough for now isn't it ?
 
Last edited:

Create an account or login to comment

You must be a member in order to leave a comment

Create account

Create a thumped.com account. It's easy!

Log in

Already have an account? Log in here.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 1)

We're listening to...

  • Sister
    Sister
    Angel Olsen
    Sister

Support thumped.com

Support thumped.com and upgrade your account

Upgrade your account now to disable all ads... If we had any... Which we don't right now.

Upgrade now

Latest posts

Trending Threads

Latest threads

Top