Jean Louis Costes at Black Sun ((weirdo music night)), Cork~26th Sept (1 Viewer)

chutneyfarmer

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for instance, a certain dublin venue - a function room in a large pub - which i will refrain from naming shocked me recently by refusing to give out glasses of water at the bar
Eh that's the exact sort of place you SHOULD be naming and shaming. That's F**king disgraceful!!!

** coz i'm in work.
 

theoootini

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you get your internet forms bleeped?

interesting about the drink/music thing, i'd never really considered that before...

and now that i think of it, gigs i've been to in non pub/club venues invariably hold my attention more...

that could be more to do with my drinking problem though! :)
 

sweetoblivion

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Agree with so much of what you said Brian, and you put it far better than I did!
I wish there had been more people there at it - and that is not said in a 'there was no on there' way, as there was a sizable and really rapt audience who I don't want to offend! - because so much work went into it from all angles, from the organisers, the performers, the baker....that sort of work should really be acknowledged, y'know?
Too often we give out about there being 'nothing on' or that our town is boring...so when people get up and get out and DO something that should really be recognised.

And on another note - I can't believe how silly I was not to even acknowledge how well timed and executed Costes' set was. The timing was so flawless, he didn't slip up once, so much so that I didn't even think about it. The practice that must have gone into it! He's seems like such a quiet person offstage....it's amazing what must go on in his mind, on a variety of levels. And even if his performance wasn't to some people's taste - and there were elements that I found a little uncomfortable, though overall I enjoyed it far more than I expected, and found it really humorous in places - it really was not pretentious at all. It was all very real, and earnest.
 

ddmurph

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all the black sun line-ups are pretty much niche interest performers as i see it. as important a group smegma are to me personally for instance, the last ("major") album, 33 1/3, has been standing on the shelves of plugd gathering dust since it was released over two years ago. we all know that, realistically, most people aren't going to be overly familiar with/aware of people like costes, smegma or blood stereo. the hope is that people might be interested in checking them out though. and even if you're not into a particular performer, you might've seen something different. plus the next one is gonna be pretty different again ... none of the rest of the line ups are anything like costes (nothing else on the planet is like costes really though!).

anyway, the way i see the line-ups (and black sun is totally vicky's bag, i'm only the alan mcloughlin of the operation, way off on the sidelines) is that they're chosen purely on the basis of personal taste. all the performers on all the line-ups so far are people that vicky is 100% into. also, with the exception of blood stereo who are doing the sonic youth support (although that was only arranged incidentally after the fact), these are all one-off shows. and it's all people who have never played ireland before (although that's incidental and not a deliberate choice or anything).

anyway, kinda gone off track a bit but just wanted to give some indication of how i see the music side of the night. i don't think anyone has an "obligation" to attend anything they're not into (and i know even people who are into it can't always attend for various reasons). if people are any way curious or would like to see something like this happen though, it can only happen if people come along (not that it's overly relevant, but there's absolutely no money to be made from these shows, even if they sell out). maybe people just simply aren't into this sort of shit though, which is fair enough really. if it falls flat, fuck it ... vicky'll still have gotten the opportunity to bring some of her all time favourite artists to cork/ireland. it's worth a shot seeing if other folks will dig this shit anyway
 

BC

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is it lack of support or a niche interest performer playing in a small town that most people just weren't interested in seeing?
i'd say it's a combination of both factors, it would be naive to doubt that the latter is a reality, for sure (and the previous black sun featured all acts local to cork which would account for some quarters of the crowd). when whitehouse played in cork only about ten people showed up, and they would be more well known than costes. however the support aspect is a pretty important one.

the unfortunate truth is that if gigs showcasing unusual music are poorly attended, it makes it much less likely that such gigs can continue. people do somewhat assume that these opportunities will always be there, but in reality a tremendous amount of work on the part of organisers goes into these, and if people choose not to attend, then inevitably the choice will gone in the future.

it's not dissimilar to people downloading music by independant artists but never buying the originals, it simply doesn't seem to occur to some that by choosing not to pay it makes it more difficult for these artists to continue to make music.

similarly in the gig situation, it is a matter of support... if people dont go to these events - taking the chance to maybe see bands they may not have heard of - then these interesting gigs will disappear, sadly.
 

ddmurph

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"Yo, cupcakes - this one is for you. I see you over there with your icing and sugary stuff"

Hahahaha
the cupcakes weren't the only baked goods in the quad that night


cheers brian, that's pretty much what i was trying to get at but ended up rambling

anyway, as regards the show itself, costes was fucking incredible. he's my hero
 

Wölflinge

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is it lack of support or a niche interest performer playing in a small town that most people just weren't interested in seeing?

just a question...
pas de touche.

I don't think Cork is a small town and I don't believe that Costes is a 'niche interest performer', whatever that means...
All that compartmentalising must get tiresome for people, not to mention boring. Brian and ddmurph, I'd rather do away with the notion of "niche-interest performers" and would like to disassociate that dull expression from Black Sun.

(Oootini, I'm sorry if I'm coming across as hostile here. Tone is a funny thing that rarely comes across well online.)

Local support has everything to do with independently run gigs. I'm biting my tongue severely here. If the next two pull the same numbers as Costes, then Black Sun will have to be an annual thing if it continues at all. What's frustrating is the amount of enthusiasm and momentum of interest that gathered not only for the gig, but the idea and spirit behind the night in general, that vanished into thin air as soon as the doors opened. At this point I must thank the handful of people I know who paid in and to those whom I have never met before who came along.
 

Gambra

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And I want to apologise for not making it down to the gig itself, I did end up getting called in to work on Sunday morning which made it impossible to make it down. I didn't expect it to get a small crowd though!
 

BC

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Brian and ddmurph, I'd rather do away with the notion of "niche-interest performers" and would like to disassociate that dull expression from Black Sun
"niche-interest performer" is not a phrase i would use, it's empty nomenclature. the reality is, though, that jean louis costes isn't a household name for many in this country, even among fans of experimental music. it is a factor, though very much a secondary one to this:

Local support has everything to do with independently run gigs. I'm biting my tongue severely here. If the next two pull the same numbers as Costes, then Black Sun will have to be an annual thing if it continues at all.
...which is exactly what i'm talking about. it should be supported if only to ensure the existance of events which value art over bar sales, not to mention providing a platform for a stronger variety of creative endevour in an atmosphere that nutures rather than stifles.
 

Diumraid

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Why couldn't I have lived in Cork now instead of 11 years ago. It was a fu'n desert for good gigs at the time. Sorry to be missing all this.
 

sweetoblivion

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the unfortunate truth is that if gigs showcasing unusual music are poorly attended, it makes it much less likely that such gigs can continue. people do somewhat assume that these opportunities will always be there, but in reality a tremendous amount of work on the part of organisers goes into these, and if people choose not to attend, then inevitably the choice will gone in the future.
.....
similarly in the gig situation, it is a matter of support... if people dont go to these events - taking the chance to maybe see bands they may not have heard of - then these interesting gigs will disappear, sadly.
Local support has everything to do with independently run gigs. I'm biting my tongue severely here. If the next two pull the same numbers as Costes, then Black Sun will have to be an annual thing if it continues at all.
I think that says it all, really...gigs don't happen without work and money and frequently people put in loads of both and end up in debt. Independent promoters don't put on gigs to make money, they put them on to share music, but you just can't keep going if you're not getting the people paying in and actually attending the gig.

Cork is a big place but the music scene is very 'small' and all of us involved in it, whether as attendees or musicians or gig promotoers, know each other either as friends or 'to see'. And there were a lot of people absent from Black Sun this time around that hopefully will make an appearance at the next one.

No one expects people to go to every gig, we all have to watch our pennies, but when it's a monthly thing it's that bit more affordable. And when it's competely different to everything else that's out there, then why not give it your support?

Regarding it being a 'niche' gig, personally I feel that although the bands may be 'niche' in that they are not hugely well known, the gig itself isn't 'niche' because it isn't just for a small group of hand-picked people.
I don't know a huge amount about a lot of the bands that have played or will play but I don't see myself as not welcome because of that - knowing Vicky and Dave I know they're very generous with the music they love and they want to share it with other people.
I sort of see Black Sun as a musical education for me and a lot of other people, y'know? And there are bands I dig and bands I might not dig so much. Just because I don't know Smegma's back catalogue off by heart doesn't mean that I can't or shouldn't go.

Here's something Vicky herself said about setting up Black Sun that I think really sums up the passion behind it:
"I was trying to balance emailing people interested (or half interested) in the mail art exhibition, submitting to listings, trying to get newspapers interested in it, stomping around town in the rain pushing a buggy and sticking up posters, anything and everything, with being a Full Time Mammy. My two and a half year old daughter got used to the sight of me frantically typing on our laptop for weeks on end. This time around, there will be no exhibition so there’s an awful lot less pressure. Organising gigs is easy, it’s getting people to show up that’s the difficult part. I was thrilled when I was told that we had reached our legal capacity within half an hour of doors opening back in May."
 

theoootini

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poor choice of words then. no biggie. check out this great poem wot i found:

"MY DEFINITION OF A WIERDO"
by black sk8r

now its alotta people who c my page and wonder y i call myself a wierdo well hears y
my definition of a wierdo is a creep someone unpleasantly strange or eccentric or crazy, someone deranged and possibly dangerous someone who doesn't give a fuck. someone who isn't scared of anything or anyone a monster n the bed and an alien wen it comes to giving head to a lady of course lol. a person regarded to as crackpot, crazy, lunatic, informal crank, loon, loony, cuckoo, ding-a-ling, dingbat, kook, nut, screwball, and weirdie were crazy 2 c like a bearded lady, strange, odd, bizarre, etc. but believe we aint normal were better more clever than whatever or whomever. were unconditional in behavior, a person who is strange to other people This person may do strange things, so this person can be considered a "weirdo".
A non-conformist who does not follow trends or a subculture. A true 'weirdo' will do what they feel, and can get along with most people. This person does not actually conform to a stereotype and shouldn't be labled. BUT MOST OF ALL WERE DIFFERENT.
 

daydream_nation

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What's frustrating is the amount of enthusiasm and momentum of interest that gathered not only for the gig, but the idea and spirit behind the night in general, that vanished into thin air as soon as the doors opened
surprised it didnt get a better turn out, especially cos the first one was jammers. myself and chad were talking about it during the week, and how so many nights in cork havent survived cos people dont support them. hope that doesnt happen with this.
dont mean to sound like a complete gimp but apologies for not making it in vicky, had a ticket for ages but never made it to town. arf.
 

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