ISPs providing addresses of p2p users to the IRMA? (1 Viewer)

Would be interested to know what people think I did wrong or how I should have handled it differently.

(not wanting to sound like a teacher) i thought you did grand, held your own, so fair play. i think you said at one stage that people are 'entitled' to share music though.

if kenny was doing his job, hed have made entitlement the issue - record co.s entitlement to fleece consumers/make profit/'grow the market' (the figures for the current losses are compared with years when they were increasing profits by 14%+ per year), aslans entitlement to have a successful album, the consumers entitlement to share...

havent listened to it since, but did little willie k actually say that more people are listening to more music now than 10 years ago?
 
I believe you have a right to share - but I guess that is still an extreme position.

There are a couple of points I would like to hear more often in these discussions

A. Record labels and their lackeys have a vested interest in the status quo and can't be regarded as an honest broker in the discussion between artist and listener in how downloaded music is structured.

B. An album downloaded is not an album stolen. (I think this is a point you made very well) but what is not mentioned enough is the fact that people who download more buy more and by marginalizing downloaders record companies are marginalizing their best customers.

C. The model most record companies had was the flog millions of records of a limited number of artists. Their business model was damaging to the vast majority of artists and to our culture as a whole. The internet age has killed this model - it's no longer possible to make a mint flogging Robbie Williams albums to the type of person who buys 5 CD's a year. Peoples tastes are broader than they used to be and they are exposed to a more varied diet of music than ever before.

D. The genie is never going to go back in the bottle. Clowns from record labels who talk hysterically like yer man did, about something that most people think is normal, don't do their cause any favor. All that will happen is that they will loose the opportunity to create a system that is fair and that benefits the artist. They squndered the chance they had to regularise the position after the Napster case, and their intransigance has been detrimental to the artists they claim to represent.
 
B. An album downloaded is not an album stolen. (I think this is a point you made very well) but what is not mentioned enough is the fact that people who download more buy more and by marginalizing downloaders record companies are marginalizing their best customers.

I don't think this is a fact, in the sense that I don't think it's true. There are loads of people who download AND buy loads, and loads of people who download loads and buy fuck all. I don't think there's any significant evidence to suggest that the more downloading you do, sampling music etc, the more purchases you'll make. If there is a correlation it's that those who buy the most music probably also generally download a significant amount of music as well.

You're absolutely right that the genie is out of the bottle.
 
Yeah I should have mentioned those people, 50 Quid man et al. My point was that downloading doesn't stimulate sales.

I think that people who were buying records, who then started downloading and continue to buy records are probably the people who are being referred to.
There is a whole generation of people coming up behind that group who have and will never pay for a record. What people fail to understand is that for that generation consumption of music is totally different. It's either ipod, mobile phone or streaming sites like youtube while they're on bebo or whatever's cool these days. Try getting them to start paying for downloads. Not gonna happen. Even cds are too cumbersome for them.

Dunno what's gonna happen but here's my suggestion:
- Kill the record companies.
- Get the publishing and collection agencies to collect a download/streaming fee from all isps.
- Have the artists be self sufficient in terms of providing their music via whatever medium.
- Have them register with the collection agencies to collect whatever is due to them from downloads/streaming.

Let's be honest - we don't need record labels. All they provide is the clout to market music and that's what has the industry so f**ked. Pushing inane shit with a lifespan of 2 weeks.
 
If they really locked down the internet they could force payment for copyrighted materials again. I dunno if that'll ever happen but it is interesting that copyright holders in Ireland and several countries are going after the ISPs. It'll be very interesting to see what the effects of these rounds of litigation are. If stuff like Echelon got advanced enough it could monitor every bit sent over the net maybe.
 
If they really locked down the internet they could force payment for copyrighted materials again. I dunno if that'll ever happen but it is interesting that copyright holders in Ireland and several countries are going after the ISPs. It'll be very interesting to see what the effects of these rounds of litigation are. If stuff like Echelon got advanced enough it could monitor every bit sent over the net maybe.

That won't work. The old model is dead - completely dead once the next generation come up. They can't lock it down without killing what makes the internet what it is.
 
i download buttloads of music and i can't remember the last time i paid for a hard copy of music (i think it might have been a 7" of shetland fiddle music about 2 years ago which i've never heard because i have no record player). CDs depress me and my record player is at home in dublin. i wouldn't bother buying a cd if i have the mp3s. it's great.

but, thinking about it in terms of music representing work, it's pretty unfair. for example i'd definitely pay even what seemed a slightly steep price for a record or gig of a DIY band i know and like because i know the money goes straight to them and more tours and more releases. the issue is clouded by the fact that so much of the earnings from sold music go to record labels etc...clearly the solution is to kill all record execs and mince their lawyers into release party sausages.
 
i download buttloads of music and i can't remember the last time i paid for a hard copy of music (i think it might have been a 7" of shetland fiddle music about 2 years ago which i've never heard because i have no record player). CDs depress me and my record player is at home in dublin. i wouldn't bother buying a cd if i have the mp3s. it's great.

but, thinking about it in terms of music representing work, it's pretty unfair. for example i'd definitely pay even what seemed a slightly steep price for a record or gig of a DIY band i know and like because i know the money goes straight to them and more tours and more releases. the issue is clouded by the fact that so much of the earnings from sold music go to record labels etc...clearly the solution is to kill all record execs and mince their lawyers into release party sausages.

In fairness, where the money goes and who gets it is none of your business.
I take it you pay for food? You know the farmer gets a minute percentage of the price you pay. Gonna start nicking all your food now?
 
In fairness, where the money goes and who gets it is none of your business.
I take it you pay for food? You know the farmer gets a minute percentage of the price you pay. Gonna start nicking all your food now?
used to, got caught and lost the nerve though

if it's none of my business, it's none of yours, so why get your balls in a tangle over who pays or doesn't?
i think you'll find where my money goes is entirely my business.
 
so where do we stand on secondhand music then? in pre-P2P times most of the music i bought was secondhand and i'd imagine a lot of you were the same. much cheaper, and no profit passed on to the artist. let's all flagellate ourselves in shame.

won't somebody think of the artists! the lost revenue! oh, the humanity!
 
used to, got caught and lost the nerve though

if it's none of my business, it's none of yours, so why get your balls in a tangle over who pays or doesn't?
i think you'll find where my money goes is entirely my business.

So boycott food, clothes, books and just about anything else you buy. Start nicking everything because your justification is ridiculous - "the issue is clouded by the fact that so much of the earnings from sold music go to record labels etc..."
You can apply that analogy to almost anything you buy so nick it all.

What bothers me about you and people like you is not the fact that you download. It's that you use nonsense to justify it.
You say "I'd difinitely buy...." when you previously say 'I can't remember that last time I paid for...".
It wouldn't bother me half as much if you just said that you download because you can and you don't give a damn who it affects. At least it'd be honest.
 
i've been thinking about the "biggest downloaders buy more music" argument and i don't think it's a valid argument for anything really, like yes these guys are big music fans and buy lots of music, but if they couldn't download they would buy even more i reckon.
 
so where do we stand on secondhand music then? in pre-P2P times most of the music i bought was secondhand and i'd imagine a lot of you were the same. much cheaper, and no profit passed on to the artist. let's all flagellate ourselves in shame.

won't somebody think of the artists! the lost revenue! oh, the humanity!

That's a horrible attitude in fairness. How do you expect artists to make art if they're not paid for their art? I'm not against downloading for free or sharing, but I am against not paying for stuff if you think it's great.
 

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