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Lili Marlene

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Now, excuse my EXTREME ignorance here, but as a state owned business how about they don't make a "profit" right now and pass those savings onto the people of the country amid a huge energy crisis? Or, you know, invest in something that's get us off gas and oil? Just a thought, like.

 

moose

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Now, excuse my EXTREME ignorance here, but as a state owned business how about they don't make a "profit" right now and pass those savings onto the people of the country amid a huge energy crisis? Or, you know, invest in something that's get us off gas and oil? Just a thought, like.


This would be a reason.

"The company said its generation and supply businesses are required to operate separately, so increased profits from ESB’s generation business cannot be used to offset costs incurred by Electric Ireland."

Like if it was fully state owned and not broken up into separate entities with bunch of competitors that could and would sue if the savings were passed onto the consumers resulting in Electric Irelands undercutting them (the competition).
 

Lili Marlene

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Ah yeah of course, nothing better is possible unless their hand is forced, we must never forget that. Rather a million people be dead than the letter of the law be besmirched.
 

moose

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Ah yeah of course, nothing better is possible unless their hand is forced, we must never forget that. Rather a million people be dead than the letter of the law be besmirched.

Well the government could change the laws and help people but that's on them not the ESB. It's not like the ESB has a bunch of investors creaming off the profits, vast majority of profits go to investing in renewable energy and the government coffers.
 

Lili Marlene

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Well the government could change the laws and help people but that's on them not the ESB. It's not like the ESB has a bunch of investors creaming off the profits, vast majority of profits go to investing in renewable energy and the government coffers.
Yeah, build them renewables already!
 

ann post

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The eu are gonna be profit scraping the electricity companies soon too so a portion of those profits might make it into winter schemes from that end. Only announced this week, no idea of method
 

magicbastarder

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thing is, if their profits have doubled because their prices have doubled, i.e. they're still running a 10% profit margin say, they can't reduce prices by more than 10% which is not a lot, before they start to operate at a loss.
still, 10% would be 10%. and ringfencing the profits to be used for sustainable energy generation would also be a start.
 

moose

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thing is, if their profits have doubled because their prices have doubled, i.e. they're still running a 10% profit margin say, they can't reduce prices by more than 10% which is not a lot, before they start to operate at a loss.
still, 10% would be 10%. and ringfencing the profits to be used for sustainable energy generation would also be a start.

The profits haven't doubled because prices have doubled.
 

Lili Marlene

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You can't build renewables you just build the infrastructure to harvest them which they are doing
Jesus Christ man, do you think i actually meant build a new sun? Fine, I see where this conversation is going, you are technically correct, the best kind of correct.

The profits mean they can keep doing it. If they didn't make a profit there would be no money to invest.
Yes, my issue is with this system. I should have been clearer about this from the first post.

thing is, if their profits have doubled because their prices have doubled, i.e. they're still running a 10% profit margin say, they can't reduce prices by more than 10% which is not a lot, before they start to operate at a loss.
still, 10% would be 10%. and ringfencing the profits to be used for sustainable energy generation would also be a start.
It is my opinion that the Irish obsession with "ring-fencing" funds is a real sign of a sick society, it points to an assumption that anything that is not "ring-fenced" is going to be frittered away or embezzled in some way. No I do not have rigorous data to back this up, it is a feeling.
 

moose

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Jesus Christ man, do you think i actually meant build a new sun? Fine, I see where this conversation is going, you are technically correct, the best kind of correct.


Yes, my issue is with this system. I should have been clearer about this from the first post.


It is my opinion that the Irish obsession with "ring-fencing" funds is a real sign of a sick society, it points to an assumption that anything that is not "ring-fenced" is going to be frittered away or embezzled in some way. No I do not have rigorous data to back this up, it is a feeling.

I knew what you meant, hence the piss taking, but essentially you want them to build the renewable infrastructure but not make the profits they need to pay for the building said infrastructure. That right?

Btw I don't think the investment is in solar power, more likely wind and hopefully tidal.

My point is that the profits are not going to some bunch of faceless shareholders, and we both agree the capitalist system is bad and a fully nationalised energy supply is better.

Having a bunch of actual private companies in the Irish energy market is fucking it all up not the ESB.
 

magicbastarder

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My sister in law works for one of the utilities and gets half price electricity. So my suggestion for fixing the issue is that we should move to a fully electricity based economy with everyone employed by a utility company and getting half price bills.
 

moose

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My sister in law works for one of the utilities and gets half price electricity. So my suggestion for fixing the issue is that we should move to a fully electricity based economy with everyone employed by a utility company and getting half price bills.

Or just get rid of all the private energy companies from the Irish market so we can set our own prices without worrying about unfair competition bollocks.
 

Lili Marlene

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I knew what you meant, hence the piss taking, but essentially you want them to build the renewable infrastructure but not make the profits they need to pay for the building said infrastructure. That right?

Btw I don't think the investment is in solar power, more likely wind and hopefully tidal.

My point is that the profits are not going to some bunch of faceless shareholders, and we both agree the capitalist system is bad and a fully nationalised energy supply is better.

Having a bunch of actual private companies in the Irish energy market is fucking it all up not the ESB.
Goddammit man, then why did you have to agree with me in such a difficult way!? I never said anything about profits going to faceless shareholders.

Just to ad one more thing the ESB is still 95% owned by the government and 5% by the staff. Very much not a private company like a lot of people are making it out to be

My issue is that an almost wholly nationalized energy company, which runs and maintains the whole grid for everyone else anyway, is effectively being FORCED to run at a profit. Clearly, my issue is with the system, not with the company itself.

To take it further, the company is owned by us, the government is voted in by us, but the rules apparently say that there is no way that this money can be used to help us.
 

moose

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Goddammit man, then why did you have to agree with me in such a difficult way!?

Where'd the fun be then?

My issue is that an almost wholly nationalized energy company, which runs and maintains the whole grid for everyone else anyway, is effectively being FORCED to run at a profit. Clearly, my issue is with the system, not with the company itself.

To take it further, the company is owned by us, the government is voted in by us, but the rules apparently say that there is no way that this money can be used to help us.


As I said above get rid of the competition and we can set our own prices.
 

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