Harbo "Niall" Harbison (1 Viewer)

I'm with you on this, but of course the problem isn't the Madonna's and the Conor McGregor's its the 20 lads we all know who are trying to do this and failing miserably and there's no talking to them.

Even in the little world of Prince fandom it's amazing how many of his associates tried to do the solo thing like he did (write, record, play, produce all your stuff yourself) and all stalled. I'm more or less of the opinion that if you're in the position to be able to analyse "that drive" then you don't have it.

There was probably an element of them trying to emulate someone else's career path and hoping it goes exactly the same rather than trying to find their own route. Maybe they were concentrating too much on trying to become the next Prince instead of going for something new.

It's something me and my brother were talking about a little while ago. We were just saying that we've never thought "I like X band, I'm going to listen to Y because they sound exactly like X"
 
There was probably an element of them trying to emulate someone else's career path and hoping it goes exactly the same rather than trying to find their own route. Maybe they were concentrating too much on trying to become the next Prince instead of going for something new.

It's something me and my brother were talking about a little while ago. We were just saying that we've never thought "I like X band, I'm going to listen to Y because they sound exactly like X"
Yeah, absolutely.

and going out trying to be the next Conor McGregor is a very different thing to going out and being Conor McGregor.
 
I think a lot it's down to intensive focus and huge self belief. I suppose for a lot of people, especially in Ireland, the self belief part is lacking so that's why they go down the self help route.
They go down the self-help route because it tells them all they need to do is believe, and that seems controllable

Really though it's not all they need to do - if increased self-belief means you practice more, then that helps. AFAICS belief by itself is irrelevant
 
I'm with you on this, but of course the problem isn't the Madonna's and the Conor McGregor's its the 20 lads we all know who are trying to do this and failing miserably and there's no talking to them.

Even in the little world of Prince fandom it's amazing how many of his associates tried to do the solo thing like he did (write, record, play, produce all your stuff yourself) and all stalled. I'm more or less of the opinion that if you're in the position to be able to analyse "that drive" then you don't have it.
I kinda wouldn’t put Prince in there – although you know infinitely more about him than I do, so I could stand corrected.
But Prince was more like George Best or even Maradona, propelled forward by genius-level ability from their youth.
Like in the 80s you couldn’t leave Prince alone for 5 minutes only he’d have written another song – dude was literally giving them away - he had something inside him that needed out.
George Best had to be dragged in at night cos he couldn’t stop kicking a ball against a garage door, over and over and over. The drive was coming from the muse. It didn’t have an off switch.

Those people are fascinating in their own right, and arguably rise to the level of their talent.

With McGregor and Beyonce and Roy Keane and others, it’s the Gatsby-esque drive that makes them study every aspect of the game and the skills needed and the barriers to success and how they can be overcome and never ever giving up.
Like that line in Kill Your Friends.
“In return for her fifteen minutes I guarantee you that Geri Halliwell would have risen at the crack of dawn every morning for a year and swum naked through a river of shark-infested, HIV-positive semen – cutting the throats of children, old age pensioners and cancer patients and throwing them behind her as she went – just to be allowed to do a sixty-second regional radio interview. This is the kind of person you want to sign. You’ve got a shot with that kind of attitude. Talented? Fuck off. Go and work in a guitar shop with all the other talented losers.”

It can give you Madonna, but can also give you Maroon 5.
It’s more fascinating with Madonna.

Maybe these distinctions only exist in my own head.
Maybe with 8 billion people on the planet, you need both undeniable talent and supreme drive to achieve success in these incredibly competitive fields.

But I was heading for a night train in NYC a few years back and every sidewalk with a bar was jammed with people leaning in windows – like you couldn’t walk down the street – because McGregor was fighting Mayweather (an insane proposition to start with). And yet, this gobby, short ginger from Crumlin, had brought New York City to a halt because he read a stupid fucking book and never stopped believing he could goddamn do it.
Like I said, he’s not an easy guy to like. But that bending of the world just fascinates me.

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I dunno, McGregor has studied a lot of that self help stuff. They were working with Tony Robbins recently. I would say there is a difference between achieving physical goals & creative goals.
Absolutely

But if you're Beyonce, you can do all the work on performance, voice, dance and the myriad other things she does exceptionally, and then get Ezra Koenig and heck knows how many others in to rewrite a Yeah Yeah Yeahs song into Hold Up, and to make an incredible record like Lemonade.
Bowie arguably did his share of this - surrounding himself with different creative people to help his constant reinvention.

It’s not the same as what Ronaldo does, but it all starts with the belief and the drive.


Like I said, this is probably all in my head and those distinctions may not exist, or may not actually be as clear cut as I'm making them out to be.
 
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I kinda wouldn’t put Prince in there – although you know infinitely more about him than I do, so I could stand corrected.
But Prince was more like George Best or even Maradona, propelled forward by genius-level ability from their youth.
Like in the 80s you couldn’t leave Prince alone for 5 minutes only he’d have written another song – dude was literally giving them away - he had something inside him that needed out.
George Best had to be dragged in at night cos he couldn’t stop kicking a ball against a garage door, over and over and over. The drive was coming from the muse. It didn’t have an off switch.

Those people are fascinating in their own right, and arguably rise to the level of their talent.

With McGregor and Beyonce and Roy Keane and others, it’s the Gatsby-esque drive that makes them study every aspect of the game and the skills needed and the barriers to success and how they can be overcome and never ever giving up.
Like that line in Kill Your Friends.
“In return for her fifteen minutes I guarantee you that Geri Halliwell would have risen at the crack of dawn every morning for a year and swum naked through a river of shark-infested, HIV-positive semen – cutting the throats of children, old age pensioners and cancer patients and throwing them behind her as she went – just to be allowed to do a sixty-second regional radio interview. This is the kind of person you want to sign. You’ve got a shot with that kind of attitude. Talented? Fuck off. Go and work in a guitar shop with all the other talented losers.”

It can give you Madonna, but can also give you Maroon 5.
It’s more fascinating with Madonna.

Maybe these distinctions only exist in my own head.
Maybe with 8 billion people on the planet, you need both undeniable talent and supreme drive to achieve success in these incredibly competitive fields.

But I was heading for a night train in NYC a few years back and every sidewalk with a bar was jammed with people leaning in windows – like you couldn’t walk down the street – because McGregor was fighting Mayweather (an insane proposition to start with). And yet, this gobby, short ginger from Crumlin, had brought New York City to a halt because he read a stupid fucking book and never stopped believing he could goddamn do it.
Like I said, he’s not an easy guy to like. But that bending of the world just fascinates me.
I think we're mostly agreeing. Whether Prince got to where he did through genius or his dangerous work ethic is debatable, probably both, and a lot of luck. For him the work came before all other things, including relationships and any other form of living. Dude died alone in an elevator with no one for miles around because he pushed everyone away, addicted to a literal drug that allowed him to feed his other drug (work). Honestly it's no way to be.

I suppose the difference between McGregor and the greats in my head is McGregor has the world at his feet and spends it acting the eejit, shilling rubbish whiskey and possibly doing things much, much worse. Muhammad Ali on the other hand turned up on Irish tv quoting poetry he wrote himself.
 
I wonder if McGre
Yeah, absolutely.

and going out trying to be the next Conor McGregor is a very different thing to going out and being Conor McGregor.
what?

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They go down the self-help route because it tells them all they need to do is believe, and that seems controllable

Really though it's not all they need to do - if increased self-belief means you practice more, then that helps. AFAICS belief by itself is irrelevant

I guess I'm arguing that you need both. That if you have loads of talent but no confidence, you're also not going to get anywhere because you're not going to stick your head above the parapet.
I kind of think the 2 go hand in hand, your determination to push yourself at anything might be wilted a bit if you don't have the confidence in yourself to believe that you could be really good at it.
I've seen it a lot over the years, especially in music and especially in indie scenes, where really talented people don't want to look like they're trying too hard. I think a lot of it's very much an insecurity thing where they've already written off their own prospects. I think there's an element of "If I look like I haven't made an effort, it'll look like I've failed intentionally." Sort of like Pavement without the self belief.
 
I've seen it a lot over the years, especially in music and especially in indie scenes, where really talented people don't want to look like they're trying too hard. I think a lot of it's very much an insecurity thing where they've already written off their own prospects.

This might be an overreach on my part, but that seems to exist in Ireland in buckets.
I know the whole “notions” thing is gas and can be very funny, but the way that idea can take a hold in Ireland the past few years says something about us – I think.
People will jokingly self-criticise for trying something different and having “notions”, because they feel there’s inherent judgement out there among their peers and in society for wanting to try, for thinking you can be better than you already are.
Whether it’s real or not, I get the impression that people feel like there’s real risk to sticking your head above the parapet.

Yes, I know "notions" is just a joke, but the way the joke had legs and gained currency in Ireland was kind of revealing.
Maybe every society has its own version of it, but it seems somewhat particular with us.

I might be projecting here.
 
I suppose the difference between McGregor and the greats in my head is McGregor has the world at his feet and spends it acting the eejit, shilling rubbish whiskey and possibly doing things much, much worse. Muhammad Ali on the other hand turned up on Irish tv quoting poetry he wrote himself.

I think he's a young man from an area where nobody ever gets handed a ton of money, and then a year later gets handed ten times that amount of money, and then a year later gets handed ten times that amount of money. he's said himself he's no Ali.

There was a documentary about Steve cooney on tg4 at the weekend. I've seen Steve play and he's a wizard. One of the interviewees said a thing I thought was really interesting about Cooney, (para) 'he carries the burden of talent very well'. Mcgregor did for a few years, but it clearly got way heavier than an overnight millionaire on drugs can carry and it stands to be seen how many victims there have been of that.

I also share the fascination with the drive and focus, if you could be bothered re-watch nate #2, its basically because nate has homer simpson syndrome that he stood the match, mc gregor lands so much on him.
 
I have no problems with him really, he's still better than 99% of famous Irish people.
 
This might be an overreach on my part, but that seems to exist in Ireland in buckets.
I know the whole “notions” thing is gas and can be very funny, but the way that idea can take a hold in Ireland the past few years says something about us – I think.
People will jokingly self-criticise for trying something different and having “notions”, because they feel there’s inherent judgement out there among their peers and in society for wanting to try, for thinking you can be better than you already are.
Whether it’s real or not, I get the impression that people feel like there’s real risk to sticking your head above the parapet.

Yes, I know "notions" is just a joke, but the way the joke had legs and gained currency in Ireland was kind of revealing.
Maybe every society has its own version of it, but it seems somewhat particular with us.

I might be projecting here.

No, I don't think it's an overreach at all. I think it's been something that's been bred into Irish people over decades. It was actually something that I was reading up on recently where they were talking about after the formation of the Irish state and here's my limited understanding of what happened. There was very little dealing with markets outside of the state so there was no need for people to innovate on what they were doing as farmers at the time were receiving a lot in the way of state subsidies and had a small captive market in Ireland.
Also, during this period the form of Catholicism that started to dominate preached against the accumulation of material wealth and a lot of people were discouraged from plying their trades. Coupled with this, de Valera pumped a lot of money into different public works and an idea began to take root that doing work for the state was seen as good decent work and commercial trade was seen as anti Catholic and anti Irish. So I think what you're seeing there is the start of the idea of "notions" as we now know today. I think there's still remnants of the idea that if somebody is doing outside of the norm or the expected that they're somehow being anti Irish.

Anyways, that's my bastardised understanding of why we have full threads laughing at David Keenan and Fontaines DC, which I've partaken in. Feel free to pick holes in it.
 
I have a theory that the homophobia of my parents' generation had something to do with "notions". Like if you were gay it meant you were kinda getting above your station, and needed to be brought down a peg or two

Would say there's a bit to that. Sure sexuality between heterosexual couples was barely tolerated.
 
There was a documentary about Steve cooney on tg4 at the weekend. I've seen Steve play and he's a wizard. One of the interviewees said a thing I thought was really interesting about Cooney, (para) 'he carries the burden of talent very well'. Mcgregor did for a few years, but it clearly got way heavier than an overnight millionaire on drugs can carry and it stands to be seen how many victims there have been of that.
It’s one of the things that I find remarkable about LeBron James – he became basically the best at what he did – amazing in itself
But he’d been surrounded by hangers-on and people wanting a piece of him since he was a young teen – his high school games were put on TV - and he came from a single parent home and signed a pro contract out of high school. Mental money to give to a teenager.
But he became this solid, grounded family man – like the move to Miami was kind of dickish – but there were not long odds on him becoming a flame out a la Iverson or others who were stars when they were still teens.

“Carries the burden of talent very well”. Really nicely put.
 
Fuck him. He’s a guy who punches people in bars because they don’t want to drink his whiskey.
 

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