General election 2020 (3 Viewers)

I guess it depends on whether by "undemocratic" you mean "the proles have no input" or "the proles don't have as much input as I think we ought to have"

I'm flirting with the idea that the real reason that "democracies" are more pleasant to live in than other regimes has less to do with commoners' input to policy, and more to do with diffusion of power. If there are many routes to and sources of power, the capacity of any one power-holder to wield that power is limited

but then, what is a democracy?

it was bastille day yesterday, and here we are 230-ish years later still asking the same questions
 
but then, what is a democracy?

it was bastille day yesterday, and here we are 230-ish years later still asking the same questions
The vocals on this :D

I LOLd


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I still think property is theft
if so, from who?


inception GIF
 
I guess it depends on whether by "undemocratic" you mean "the proles have no input" or "the proles don't have as much input as I think we ought to have"

I'm flirting with the idea that the real reason that "democracies" are more pleasant to live in than other regimes has less to do with commoners' input to policy, and more to do with diffusion of power. If there are many routes to and sources of power, the capacity of any one power-holder to wield that power is limited
I'm not convinced democracies are more pleasant to live in, not convinced at all.

Historically, royalty existed with the understanding that if things went bad for the commoners then they wouldnt be royalty any longer. Peter Thiel and Rupert Murdoch are under no such pressures and couldn't care less what happens to anyone with a net worth of less than 7 figures.

Of course:

A) Its all I've known. I'll work hard with a gun on my back for a bowl of rice a day etc.
B) whoever said the country owned by the Brits and then the Church and then Silicon Valley was democratic? i.e. I agree with you but when is that democracy going to start happening?
 
Do you disagree that, in the world we live in now, democracies are nicer to live in that non-democracies? And that, as a general rule of thumb, that the more democratic a country is the more likely its citizens are to have what you and me would consider a decent life?
 
Do you disagree that, in the world we live in now, democracies are nicer to live in that non-democracies? And that, as a general rule of thumb, that the more democratic a country is the more likely its citizens are to have what you and me would consider a decent life?

Sure, if you want to make vast, vast generalisations, but i'd rather be poor in Cuba than poor in the USA. I'd rather be rich in the USA than rich in Cuba.

I don't think getting out the democracy graphs and measuring countries up against each other on it is a particularly useful use of time.
 
Sorry @egg_ I wasn't trying to attack you in the post up there, just thumped musing aloud.

Just I always read these things about how grateful we are supposed to be for the civilizations we have that are pushing towards total planetary cataclysm and the take away is always "well at least we have democracy" and I don't know whether my response is to double down on "no we fucking don't" or "maybe this democracy thing isn't such a good idea."

Grass is always greener on the side that can still grow grass :cautious:
 
Heh, ok. I guess I've kind of lost interest in idealised versions of things like democracy (or my old flame anarchism). These days I find it more interesting to think about which real-world modern-day societies are nicer to live in (or less destructive to the environment) than others, and what about their political/social structures makes them that way.
 
And FWIW I'd say this is pretty inaccurate



AIUI most peasant revolts have been unsuccessful
Well yeah it was a pretty broad statement encompassing about 12 thousand years of history, royalty as we conceive of it is fairly new I guess. That list fairly falls apart before the year 1000 AD, and royalty getting ousted does not automatically mean a peasant revolt, in most cases it'd mean some other royalty installed.

My point is rather that the responsibilities royalty had, e.g. of noblesse oblige, or generally keeping a large group of people on your side, have been severed in our new royalty classes of the Musk and Bezos kind.
 
12 thousand years? Are you counting everything since the invention of agriculture as "history"?

edit: I mean, grand if you are, but that's not normally what I think of when I hear the word
Yeah!
 
Was reading Nialler9's bit in the journal to catch up on the music industry being shafted.


Minister Martin told the assembled that she was unable to get a seat at the table for the Cabinet Covid sub-committee to voice her concerns to the Taoiseach Micheál Martin and Health Minister Stephen Donnelly, and urged the industry to lobby her own government on her behalf.

So what I read from this is the Minister with one of the largest briefs in the History of the Irish Govt is being shut out.

Did a bit of back checking on that post because it's always been a joke. Martin replaced two ministers - including sport, during the Olympics.
Thought it was sorta notable that when Humphrey's did a year of a four part brief they reduced it down for her to three again..

1629652959989.png

Anywhooo
My reading of this is FFG obvs want to throw the greens under the bus at the next election - we all know that.
Their methodology for this was to trash the climate bill at the last hurdle to neuter ER, and now to throw the arts under a bus to wipe out CM.

So eh

Just to say it now - FFG would have your childrens world unlivable and without music if it keeps them in the next election.
I suspect they might succeed in stripping the greens of 2-5 seats and thier bet is probably on Alan Kelly or similar (who people will vote for in protest) to jump in at the smell of a title.

It's predictable enough- even with the pandemic, but the cost is insane this time, nevermind your 2008's, this is the big one.
 
Hang on. What got trashed? Did I miss something?

The climate bill nearly made it through 'intact' and in the last hours 'the government' (FFG) threw in a few edits to make a few bits vague and innefectual.
The Nora Bill did go intact, The climate justice bill looks orphaned.
 

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