General election 2020 (3 Viewers)

[JohnnyRaz]

possibly their thinking was (like a lot of the smaller parties) that if there had been another election, SF would have doubled their number of candidates and run the smaller parties into the ground.

this was probably less likely once the pandemic actually kicked in. FG and leo the caped leader got a bounce initially

 

[JohnnyRaz]

when's local women's day?

WENS INTERNATIONIL MENZ DAI

 

[ann post]

It's almost like he's a hypocrite who...

It's pretty much the career knife edge for him - i was in the most parliamentary way possible alluding that he knows exactly what CETA is. If it passes he's toast, and the greens are possibly in worse state than post Bertie, if it doesn't pass, and his current bills do it'll be the peak of the greens since their formation in Ireland.

I can be dicky about the twitter greens because a lot of them are just playing the cyber stock market of approval game - on the other hand, if CETA goes through, and the greens are fucked - have they the wherewithal to build a 12+ seat green alt party by the 2024 cycle, because that's what we'll have left.

 

[Lili Marlene]

It's pretty much the career knife edge for him - i was in the most parliamentary way possible alluding that he knows exactly what CETA is. If it passes he's toast, and the greens are possibly in worse state than post Bertie, if it doesn't pass, and his current bills do it'll be the peak of the greens since their formation in Ireland.

I can be dicky about the twitter greens because a lot of them are just playing the cyber stock market of approval game - on the other hand, if CETA goes through, and the greens are fucked - have they the wherewithal to build a 12+ seat green alt party by the 2024 cycle, because that's what we'll have left.

There is such a thing as being principled as well. I don't think Neasa Hourigan is considering being thrown out of the party just for retweets.

 

[ernesto]

It's pretty much the career knife edge for him - i was in the most parliamentary way possible alluding that he knows exactly what CETA is. If it passes he's toast, and the greens are possibly in worse state than post Bertie, if it doesn't pass, and his current bills do it'll be the peak of the greens since their formation in Ireland.

This is it

 

[ernesto]

WENS INTERNATIONIL MENZ DAI

friday 19th November

 

[Space]

It's pretty much the career knife edge for him - i was in the most parliamentary way possible alluding that he knows exactly what CETA is. If it passes he's toast, and the greens are possibly in worse state than post Bertie, if it doesn't pass, and his current bills do it'll be the peak of the greens since their formation in Ireland.

I can be dicky about the twitter greens because a lot of them are just playing the cyber stock market of approval game - on the other hand, if CETA goes through, and the greens are fucked - have they the wherewithal to build a 12+ seat green alt party by the 2024 cycle, because that's what we'll have left.

It's a good answer but mine was much easier. I voted for him and I will do again. Dublin Bay South isn't exactly the radical stronghold of the country.

 

[Cormcolash]

CETA would probably allow multinationals to sue governments over environmental measures and all

 

[magicbastarder]

wouldn't it be ironic if the canucks used CETA to start whaling again.

 

[egg_]

CETA would probably allow multinationals to sue governments over environmental measures and all

Hmm

Here's a report funded by Greenpeace https://www.greenpeace.de/sites/www...ace_studie_regulatorycooperationunderceta.pdf

Their main objection seems to be "regulatory cooperation has a focus on trade liberalisation and consistency of rules across borders; it has no focus on enhancing environmental protection". If that's Greenpeace's main worry then the likelihood of the EU environmental regulation being watered down because of CETA seems pretty low to me

 

[egg_]

... not that I'm pro-CETA or anything (I know v little about it), but free trade agreements between Ireland and the EU have drastically improved how we treat our environment

 

[magicbastarder]

is that the correct way to read it? joining the EU has theoretically forced ireland to pull its trousers up environmentally in some ways, but is that due to the free trade aspect of joining the EU?

 

[egg_]

Ah no, I don't think it has anything to do with free trade in particular, but co-operating with our neighbours more has caused us to be more environmentally conscious because our neighbours are environmentally conscious. I don't have much concrete information on what the Canucks environmental record is like, but my impression is that they're pretty alright, so if we're co-operating with them it's unlikely to make things worse

 

[magicbastarder]

the issue is that if there is some sort of dispute resolution process entered into, it would not necessarily be 'canada v ireland' but 'large canadian corporation with deep pockets v ireland' i expect.

 

[ann post]

Ah no, I don't think it has anything to do with free trade in particular, but co-operating with our neighbours more has caused us to be more environmentally conscious because our neighbours are environmentally conscious. I don't have much concrete information on what the Canucks environmental record is like, but my impression is that they're pretty alright, so if we're co-operating with them it's unlikely to make things worse

They have environmetal window dressing but are one of the biggest mining nations on earth.

 

[Cormcolash]

I don't have much concrete information on what the Canucks environmental record is like, but my impression is that they're pretty alright,

Nope, they're totally shit! Look up Athabasca oil sands. Basically they've been annihilating part of Alberta for decades.
Also from what I've heard about CETA, it will give multinationals the power to sue specific governments over measures that impact their profitability, which would seem to imply that for instance Tesco could sue Ireland if Ireland were to do away with plastic bags altogether, kind of thing.

 

[egg_]

Also from what I've heard about CETA, it will give multinationals the power to sue specific governments over measures that impact their profitability, which would seem to imply that for instance Tesco could sue Ireland if Ireland were to do away with plastic bags altogether, kind of thing.

I think it's more that if the EU were to introduce a new law (existing laws are specifically excluded according to that greenpeace thing) to lower the allowable levels of some herbicide in food in the EU, then Canadian food producers could sue because that disadvantages them

But, like - what's really going to happen? See here https://davidsuzuki.org/wp-content/...n-pesticide-regulations-executive-summary.pdf

Maximum residue limits for pesticides on food are generally weaker in Canada than the standards established by the U.S., the European Union, and Australia

So Canada still can't export food here because according to our existing laws there's too much pesticide in their foods. If they clean their shit up then they gain access to a huge new market, so maybe they will

So (shrugs) it's hard to know what CETA is going to mean for the environment, really, and it's pretty dishonest to say "Eamonn Ryan knows it'll fuck up the environment and he's still voting for it"

 

[Lili Marlene]

I think we need to be very clear that in all cases without exception free-trade agreements hurt small economies/countries and the poor in the richer societies, while making the rich richer. There hasn't been a country in history who became economically strong through anything except economic protectionism.

The wider argument of saving the planet is hugely important, more important, and needs worldwide cooperation to happen but it will never happen through free-trade deals. Co-opting the language of marxism/social justice/being sound and saying it's "co-operation" is the same as those silicon valley platform capitalist companies like Uber and Air BnB who call what they do "the sharing economy."

Having said all that, Ireland is obviously a tiny country/economy and can't be wholly isolationist, and globalisation is here, we can't ignore it.

 

[Cormcolash]

So (shrugs) it's hard to know what CETA is going to mean for the environment, really, and it's pretty dishonest to say "Eamonn Ryan knows it'll fuck up the environment and he's still voting for it"

?
Regardless of the 'can they sue, can't they sue' thing, my earlier point does get to the root of it, which is that passing CETA will absolutely mean increased carbon emissions from air transport and shipping between Canada and Europe. There's no getting away from that. Easier travel and customs between the two regions means increased movement between them, 100%.

 

[ann post]

Needs to be turned into a fight about funding the nova scotia gaeltacht.