General election 2020 (3 Viewers)

[magicbastarder]

this probably should be spun out into its own thread at this stage.

Organic meat production just as bad for climate, study finds

Analysis also found the lowest impact meat was still far more damaging than the worst plant foods

www.theguardian.com

though i don't think the article is suprising, people don't necessarily produce or consume organic produce specifically for CO2 concerns.

 

[flashback]

this probably should be spun out into its own thread at this stage.

Organic meat production just as bad for climate, study finds

Analysis also found the lowest impact meat was still far more damaging than the worst plant foods

www.theguardian.com

though i don't think the article is suprising, people don't necessarily produce or consume organic produce specifically for CO2 concerns.

The researchers said the analysis showed an urgent need for policies, such as meat taxes, to ensure food prices reflect their true costs. This would be fairer, they said, as consumers eating climate-damaging diets would pay for their pollution, rather than the costs of increased storms, floods and droughts being spread across everyone in society as they are today.

Perfectly said. What's currently happening is everyone is subsidizing / paying for the cost of artificially cheap meat.

 

[ann post]

Perfectly said. What's currently happening is everyone is subsidizing / paying for the cost of artificially cheap meat.

WEll if you are paying for it you might as well eat some.

JK.

 

[flashback]

WEll if you are paying for it you might as well eat some.

JK.

I do!

I don't want to be a prick about meat. I'll still purchase and cook meat for others. I'll even eat leftover meat it's is being thrown away. I'm not a real veggie at all.

I believe you don't have to be all hardcore and decide one day that you're going to be a vegetarian, you can simply reduce meat consumption. I see a lot of people just noping out, thinking it has to be an all or nothing because a lot of vegetarians / vegans are absolute.

You don't have to go all out on day one, or ever. I'll never buy meat for myself at this point, but I won't put anyone else out (back in the days when people used to socialize). If someone makes me dinner, I'll eat that because I think they're being lovely. I just eat very little meat these days, and it's been no hardship, at all. I don't notice being mostly vegetarian, there was no cold turkey (heh), there was no effort involved. My kids still want meat sometimes, and I'm not preventing this. I'll buy them a chicken with the intention of using the carcass for myself for stock even. If I'm out on the west of Ireland, I'll go fishing, and eat mackerel and pollock.

I think a lot of us are stuck in this dinner=meat plus some other stuff mindset, but it's ok to be veggie-curious. You can secretly try some delicious stiff manly courgette, and go back to roast beef on the weekend if you like. No one's going to judge.

 

[ann post]

I do!

Yeah i was just being a dick. I'm the same, I buy meat because my uncle eats it essentially, would probably be fully vegetarian if i still lived on my own.

 

[chris d]

Give him our love.

 

[Lili Marlene]

just get them fake/real meat burgers going already. No one will give a fuck once they're 20 times cheaper than killed meat.

 

[magicbastarder]

though i don't think the article is suprising, people don't necessarily produce or consume organic produce specifically for CO2 concerns.

BBC hoizon tonight was about carbon footprint of food. unsurprisingly steak came out as the baddie; but it was stylised as a bunch of known faces being fed different foods and being told how carbon footprinty each one was. i missed the first half, but apparently one surprise was that the asparagus served had a much higher than expected carbon footprint because it came from peru. and tiger prawns are almost as bad as steak, as they're often farmed in mangrove swamps.

 

[Lili Marlene]

Of course it's worth repeating that "carbon footprint" was invented by a PR firm working for BP in order to shift blame away from them and back on consumers.

 

[Lili Marlene]

Not specifically general election related but this is interesting for Ireland,

where does it leave the "big success story" of austerity in Ireland? Anyone in Fianna Gael gonna talk about this I wonder (not the Marx bit)

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[ann post]

So as the greens heamorage members and voters Muscles Ryan has gotten a second bill approved.

Number one was to use the excess cash from the emergency reserve of oil to go into climate based things.

This is a description of #2 - the whole text i haven't tracked down yet.

The Climate Action Bill is set to introduce a legal requirement for economy-wide carbon budgets set on a five-yearly basis, with emissions ceilings for each sector. It also strengthens oversight by the Oireachtas and the role of the independent Climate Change Advisory Council.

Which is more than any twitter anti-green/party leaving person can achieve until the next election cycle.

I don't suspect he'll be remembered fondly in the short term based on the daily twitter grind but thats not bad going for less than a year in complete chaos.

 

[magicbastarder]

the latest announcement (according to twitter) is placing into legislation something that had been already decided by policy over a year ago. so worst case scenario, it's still good news anyway. but it's not good enough for twitter, i expect.

 

[magicbastarder]

i only last week saw a 'the greens have achieved nothing in government' comment somewhere.
but so far, we have a more than doubling of the NPWS budget, the announcement of the creation of a wildlife crime unit, the two bills you mention above, €108m for rewetting bogs, the new legislation on e-scooters, actually putting into law regarding new oil/gas exploration what FG had mentioned as policy (not sure if this is encompassed in what you mention above, but i suspect so?)
what else?

 

[ann post]

i only last week saw a 'the greens have achieved nothing in government' comment somewhere.
but so far, we have a more than doubling of the NPWS budget, the announcement of the creation of a wildlife crime unit, the two bills you mention above, €108m for rewetting bogs, the new legislation on e-scooters, actually putting into law regarding new oil/gas exploration what FG had mentioned as policy (not sure if this is encompassed in what you mention above, but i suspect so?)
what else?

the oil/gas thing is in the climate bill i mentioned as #2. The sustainable mobility team is putting cycling/walking depts in the big cities now too.

Like i'll 100% conceed he's voted yes on some stuff that I can't agree with. I think said climate #2 bill was in the pipeline a long time, but if we were looking at FFG/Lab or something now i'd say the shirts would shelved it.

 

[magicbastarder]

oh yeah, he voted on a lot of stuff that'll bite them in the ass. a lot of it is simply the price for remaining in coalition, but his flip flopping on CETA is one of the ones not easy to explain away. and i don't think that was in the PfG?

 

[seanc]

€108m for rewetting bogs

Explain this to me. It's been a long time since I turned turf, but my country cousins think this is a mad travesty. And yes, they love the environment but hate "The Fucking Greens". So I don't understand at all.

There was an article
The misguided theory of ‘rewetting the bogs’ | Westmeath Examiner

That now throws up a 404. It's terrible writing, but people I know took it like gospel. I think it had something to do with rewetting the bogs would be impossible and stupid, since we need more arable land. And the Greens are stupid city folk. Or something like that.

Is "rewetting the bogs" actually possible? And what are the benefits? And what do I tell my opinionated uncle whenever I get to see him again?
·

 

[magicbastarder]

bogs are a massive carbon sink. and they need to be wet to work; drying out bogs leads to massive carbon release, as the anaerobic conditions required to stop them 'rotting', require water.
it's a major issue with tree planting; bogs are marginal, low value land usually, so an ideal place financially to grow trees - as you're not displacing livestock - but the trees dry out the bogs and even if you don't harvest the trees, the trees growing there actually release carbon rather than sequester it.

 

[magicbastarder]

the author of the piece you mention has form, seemingly, having described the pine marten as “the most nasty, vicious bird you have ever seen”

Councillor in a flap over pine martens

THE IRISH Wildlife Trust says councillors objecting to the creation of special protection areas (SPAs) have demonstrated a “staggering…

www.irishtimes.com

 

[ann post]

What i know is that the intensivised bord na mona bogs have big drains cut into them to de-wet them, so filling out the drains i'd assume would re-wet them. I feel like I know about 3 lads with jcb's who could do this in about 15 mins.

issues that confuse it

turf cutting rights - i think this was what ming was fighting for, and actually represents somethign like 2% of the bogs, not the intensified ones.
employment - bord na mona gave backbone to a lot of rural towns with the salary jobs, the transition has to consider these people.
as mentioned above - forestry planting of non native species ruins the water systems.

 

[magicbastarder]

a chap i work with used to work for BNM, and basically described it as working in a zombie movie which had been paulstretched by 100,000%. they were amazed when he left. 'but think of your pension when you retire in 30 years!' sort of reaction.