??? explain what you're getting at here, how is what is happening now any different than what was happening before? The rich continue to get richer, the poor continue to get poorer, COVID gives the rich an alibi for their conscience for a bit.
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General election 2020 (2 Viewers)
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Cormcolash
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They did have another option - not going into government with FFG.
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yep
So
They are the green party.
They are completely useless unless they legislate (as is any politician really), but in terms of climate, this is the only path available.
You are saying, in the year 2020, 10 years from 2030 being a super critical date in the climate destruction of civilisation as you know it, that they should have sat that one out for four years and hope something a little more left wing comes along and just see if it works out then?
There were a few outcomes looming there
A: second election - what was looking like SF majority, zero guarantee they'd be able to legislate, be allowed to the table or anything else. no known outcome.
B: FFG got someone with no climate policy*in as a partner and we'd just be purely neoliberal right yes men with no climate policy.
*no other party in the election had a climate policy - other than vague opposition to carbon taxation.
I head that 'oh they somehow betrayed us by doing what people voted them to do' theme a lot but I don't see how it ever stands up to analysis - are you saying that somehow, it would be better for climate if the green party, having gotten the largest share of the govt in history turned that down and sat on the fence? What is your more realistic path for the green party that I am missing?
What do you think would have happened that would have put the greens in better position? I just think it's the easy path at the minute to hate on the greens if you don't think about the position they were in, but if you do think about it, the only option for any green party is do everything can now.
On a country-scale the Green Party is irrelevant and isn't worth falling out about. They'll be there to form a coalition with anyone that will take them, they have no leverage, and they're there to take the blame and grin about it. FF/FG saw their 7.x percent vote share and agreed to do 7.x percent more environmental stuff, and have a handy group in their government who will take care of it for them.
What was happening before, in 2008, was fake money was being used to buy houses to sell to people who also had fake money. The houses mostly still exist and more fake money was invented to make sure the global west only had a bit of a rough old time and wasn't slung back 50 years or whatever.
Fake money and assetts are fine things to do this with.
What I see happening is (based on IPCC) major weather events are looking at a increase of over 100% - You can't fake money a year that has a major storm in 10/12 months. So like the pandemic, where the rules have to be twigged to survive you'll see an increasing number of suez canal/evergiven events. Stuff like 'well the rhine just went straight through three of the biggest pharmacy plants in germany, everyone with diabetes is in for a trip for three weeks and the supply chain for 16 things is fucked for a while - there wont be a one week climate crash event like 2008, there will be 30 mid sized ones in succession and our little import economy here will see prices of random shit double overnight just because its been 49 degrees in a production zone for two weeks and they are too busy trying to shelter.
So to answer the question is what i think is different is that fake money is not the same fake climate policy. The climate doesn't give a fuck about bonds, it'll just increasingly do it's dance and we wont have the livable infrastructure to fake through it.
YEah that's essentially the short version what I'm saying. But just to annpy those two more
Isn't hating on the green party pretty much 100% what MM and LV giggle about in thier respective beds, like getting the public to do that is probably the only thing they are succeeding at? Who's work are you doing here like
Cormcolash
Well-Known Member
I fail to see how going into government with FFG is better and more helpful than basically anything else that could have happened.
What is your estimation of what would have happened if they didnt go in?
Cormcolash
Well-Known Member
Another election, probably
So thats the thing - Like I know you don't have any need or obligation to support or like the greens, but if you were someone who was voting for them, and they fenced that one and then ran again and got nowhere then you'd be basically have had two votes wasted - the other possibility was same numbers, or more - but zero guaranteed - kinda like i give you a tenner to get cans, and you come back and tell me you decided to put it on the horses even though i asked for cans because theres an outside chance I'd get one more can.
So like the reason i'd be interested in understanding their motives rather than going with the MM/LV line of history repeating (clearly through the scheming of FFG i detailed above) is to look at what they got out of it - which at present is 3 bills and funding for a number of enviro community projects. That isn't nothing - the NORA one is genuinely the smartest thing they ever did, the climate thing woulda been the best thing the govt did in this term, and why would you let that happen if you were FFG, it woulda overshadowed the golf weekenders.
^^^
I suppose what I should underline all of this with, Is that I kinda don't think that any politics that isn't climate policy at this point is anythign more than a jerk off. sure, ML standing over Leo and MM in opposition might be the best dail TV we'll see, but it isn't worth a fuck without legislation, and legislators spending time in govt talking shit about legislation that isn't climate legislation is exactly what every other party in Ireland was prepared to do in the 2020.
Cormcolash
Well-Known Member
Everything that isn't climate policy is fair enough, except that good climate policy also needs to reduce inequality, otherwise the superrich are just gonna fuck everything up for everyone else anyway, ya know.
Yeah ER had the Just transition Bill for that - He was in opposition at the time and the change of govt nixxed it. Here's the jist of the 2018 intro text -
Cormcolash
Well-Known Member
Social dialogue in Ireland would be a good laugh
Yeah the climate citizens assembly is actually in the program for government, and I know you will be very shocked by this, but for some reason it seems to keep getting stalled. It's almost like a huge portion of the govt would drive the country into the sea in a forest fire than let thier minority partner do the only thing they exist for.
Can't wait for them to ignore the unanimous recommendations from the citizens assembly some time in 2028.
Well first get excited by trying to spot the absolute ghouls from the oil/car lobby that show up in the middle of it.
If we get anything like Ronan Mullen storming out screaming "It's not fair! It's not fair!" like we did last time then it'll all be worth it
Our choices seem to be a) climate policy that doesn't reduce inequality or b) no climate policy at all. From those I'll take a)
Didn't we already have one of those?
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