fundit, infographic, well? (1 Viewer)

I think we're kind of talking as if it was the tax dollar they were using.

Its not though. And whoever wrote that thing in the ticket made one really good point. If you don't like it, don't fund it.

True but what I'm trying to do is explain why, in this case, I don't like it.
 
Why should free downloads die exactly? There's a place for free downloads. Only recently don vito let loads of their back catalogue go for free as they hold sold out of all their physical copies. Being a penniless student it meant i could get some new music from a band i think are great. It didn't devalue their art in the slightest, and if anything it was a nice gesture.


There's no rules to this being in a band lark, so can we stop pretending that there is.
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Also, in response to unicron re:cheap gigs. A lot of people out there cant afford a lot of gigs that are on. In my current situation, a gig that is priced at around the 5 euro mark means i can actually go.

Why should free downloads die exactly? There's a place for free downloads. Only recently don vito let loads of their back catalogue go for free as they hold sold out of all their physical copies. Being a penniless student it meant i could get some new music from a band i think are great. It didn't devalue their art in the slightest, and if anything it was a nice gesture.


There's no rules to this being in a band lark, so can we stop pretending that there is.
-
Also, in response to unicron re:cheap gigs. A lot of people out there cant afford a lot of gigs that are on. In my current situation, a gig that is priced at around the 5 euro mark means i can actually go.


There are no rules to being in a band ? Maybe not but there sure are some heavily laid down guidelines and expectations. Most of which seem fairly ridiculous.

Anyway...

One of the first things they told me and everyone else in art college is that if you don't place a value (in this case monatary) on your work no one will ever care about it. People are psychologically more interested in things which they have to sacrifice something to have. Flowers are free they grow all over the place, but roses take sacrifice (care attention good soil, work basically) and so they are the more sought after. I didn't make the world this way it just is this way. And no I can't remember who's theory it is. So the only sacrifice in modern society is financial and so if you don't put a monetary value on your own work then unfortunately it may, and I'm not saying that this is true of everyone, it may cause the listener to subconsciously place little value in your work. To put it in simple terms if you have two virtually identical t shirts and one cost €2 while one was free you are more likely to take care of the one you paid for since the other one cost nothing to begin with.

Or at least it would have up until 10 years ago.


Since the internet has been in existence there seems to be an attitude amongst a generation of music fans that music and recordings are their entitlements. That by owning a computer and a modem or a broadband connection they are entitled to whatever album they want for free. Free downloads only exist because of this attitude and it's one i abhor.

The fact remains that making records costs money, and that really is the crux of the issue. There is an expectation on bands to provide their services for free or next to nothing. The fact is that, I've said this hundreds of times, if any other business ran the way bands are expected to, people would starve to death. Plenty of bands try to work for free but few make it any further than 1 or 2 records and for me a huge part of the reason for this is the fact that financially the strain of being in a band gets far greater as you get older and yet here we are talking about giving the work away for free, it's mind boggling.

Music is, like it or not, a commodity, and the attitude of entitlement has devalued this to the point where bands can't support any aspect of their work. I feel that that a worrying knock on effect of the disappearance of a "music industry" is that the bands that do exist and work on shoestrings also exist to an extent in a state of arrested development. Without any oppotunities to finance ambitious projects bands may start to stagnate creatively. Time will tell but for me the attitude of "music = free" may well have a far more pernicious effect on culture than we currently realise.

That's my theory anyway.

As for €5 gigs I think anything less is a bit ridiculous. When you consider that everyone working at the gig is making money, Sound man, bar staff, security guards the only ones not making a cent is usually the band.

The way gigs are run could do with over-haulling though so that the price can stay low and the bands have an honest crack at making some money. Some transparency in how venues charge for their rooms would be a good start. For example if you have to pay €200 for the room and the claim is that that pays for security, soundman and bar staff then that's ridiculous because the bar it's self should cover the cost of the bar staff and the security since they're a requirement for the bar to even be open in the first place. As for the sound man there is nothing worse than knowing that you are paying someone to be arrogant ignorant and condescending towards you.
 
"Time will tell but for me the attitude of "music = free" may well have a far more pernicious effect on culture than we currently realise."

Already people are so used to getting music for free that pubs/promotors expect bands to play for free and punters expect to get in for free. That people don't have any money doesn't help..... plenty of drink coming over the bar though.
 
Look lads..its like this..

I don't remember Rocky Balboa crowd sourcing funds to cover his training expenses in the run up to fighting Apollo Creed.

He just hit the streets in a belly top and got down to business.
 
Look lads..its like this..

I don't remember Rocky Balboa crowd sourcing funds to cover his training expenses in the run up to fighting Apollo Creed.

He just hit the streets in a belly top and got down to business.


apollo funded the fight.

washingcattle no offence dude, but your long debate contributions tend be a bit circular and ignore a lot of relevant information.
 
Also..bar owners not being prepared to pay bands is disgraceful.Its a worldwide phenomonon.

The problem is compounded by wannabe popstar talentless pricks who'll still jump at the opportunity.They get up on stage and are shit.People go..ahh here this is shite..gimme a DJ or a tribute act.

Its a race to the bottom.
 
apollo funded the fight.

washingcattle no offence dude, but your long debate contributions tend be a bit circular and ignore a lot of relevant information.


None taken. I just start typing and then hit post. It's not like I study.


Such as ?


"Time will tell but for me the attitude of "music = free" may well have a far more pernicious effect on culture than we currently realise."

Already people are so used to getting music for free that pubs/promotors expect bands to play for free and punters expect to get in for free. That people don't have any money doesn't help..... plenty of drink coming over the bar though.

Sorry yeah. I agree

Of course, that's Ireland for you. I mean on a more global scale there. There isn't the kind of industry there once was at least not for certain types of music anyway.

Lets say take premier league for example. If everyone is playing in the sunday league for a pub team now it's possible that the knock on effect could easilly be that the sport is diminshed because of this.
 
It's kind of the same as anything really. People who profess to love music should want to contribute to the process of making it, so it can perpetuate. Those who say they love their country should want to pay more taxes so that there are parks and arts funding and decent education and health services. But they don't and won't, so a compromise has to be arrived at.

I think fundits are great. When they are done well you can end up with something really unique, ultimately a product of a higher standard and all while cutting out the middle man. What I would be worried about is that they become too prevalent. If it gets to a stage where you are getting requests every week from bands looking for money eventually folk will stop bothering altogether. That is why we didn't use it for our album that's almost done now. Then again we could look back in a few years and compare our record to, say, Ten Past Seven's Black Box Sessions and maybe feel we could've got ours sounding that good with a bit more money. I dunno, it's a tough one.
 
What I would be worried about is that they become too prevalent.

I imagine that's where we're unavoidably headed. In principle I think it's a great idea, but as the requests for cash pile up, I will lose interest, particularly if it becomes the preferred model of how to make a record.

If you want to do something unique with your record, whether if be using a fancy producer or packaging it inside a giant smartie, and you believe your fans will be keen to pre-pay for your project, then go for it.

If you are lucky enough to make records for a living, then you should really be generating enough money to fund the process internally.

If you don't make enough money from gigging/selling records and you choose to persevere then what you are doing becomes a hobby, and you should expect to pay for it out of your own pocket before asking others for cash.

Everything, bar pressing, for the new Corpo record (recording/mastering/art) was paid for out of the band kitty. We played gigs to oil up that kitty. We briefly considered a fundit to pay for the vinyl, but the consensus was that we were too uncomfortable with the idea.
Instead we've mortgated one of Joss's children.
 

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