Funding Up The Arts (1 Viewer)

prefuse

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When the government say fund the arts they don't really consider rock bands the arts.....well until they break through internationally. And then they show up for the photo op.
 

ann post

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out of interest what do you propose to solve this ?
Some kind of very basic system that if in any case music or not someone shows up for a few hours to work in your establishment, the you pay them for the hours they have done. Sorta like everyone else in the whole venue gets treated, y'know? I'm not sure why anyone, anywhere should be looking at me like i have two heads for suggesting something so basic.

Also as someone who lived entirely on disability for over a decade, i know what 203 gets. What it does not get you is enough money to go to a pay to play venue and risk 2-6% of your annual income so a sound engineer and some bar staff can get paid. I legit had lovely, sound, decent people asking me to front 300eu to play shows in dublin (just add in the transport and rehearsal time yourself there) like it was a normal thing.

The end result is if you

A: can't afford to live in a large city
B: can't afford to go to bimm
C: are geographically outside the dublin commuter belt
D: are unable to work regular jobs to fund the bar industry by being a musician

then you do not make music at any real level in Ireland, and you can extrapolate from that who does have the platform to make music in ireland and how it effects who is represented in the music scence
 

egg_

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You know I sympathise with your point of view @ann post, but I feel like I need to point out that it isn't just popular music that works like this. In pretty much any musical you go and see outside the Bord Gais theatre all the techs (and maybe the director/stage manager) are being paid, but none of the performers are. Organisations like Birdwatch Ireland and Wikipedia have a small core of people who get paid, but the vast majority of work is done by volunteers.

... but I guess the difference in popular music is that often the performer not only doesn't get paid, but assumes all the risks. If I'm appearing in a musical I don't have to pay up front to hire my costume, and only get my money back if the attendance is good, if I'm doing a citizen science project I don't have to buy my own equipment.
 

ann post

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You know I sympathise with your point of view @ann post, but I feel like I need to point out that it isn't just popular music that works like this.
It doesn't 'work' like this, it happens like this because people permit it to. It works for a certain amount of people. I get that you are just saying 'but this is what happens' and I'm like, yes, i know, i don't need that explained to me, what i need explained to me is how you think its ok.
 

therealjohnny

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Great news, but I think it shows that they will only fund "arts" for which they feel they will get a return for their investment

 

therealjohnny

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We need a separate thread. Something like "Budget my Arts, "Fund my arts" or some other arse/arts pun
 

egg_

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what i need explained to me is how you think its ok
Do you think it's not ok for the Gaiety to put on Rathmines and Rathgar Musical Society shows in which the performers aren't paid? Do you think it's not ok for wikipedia to be written by volunteers? Do you think it's not ok to use Apache webserver software, or Linux, because mostly the people who wrote it weren't paid?

Money isn't everything.
 

JohnnyRaz

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Do you think it's not ok for the Gaiety to put on Rathmines and Rathgar Musical Society shows in which the performers aren't paid? Do you think it's not ok for wikipedia to be written by volunteers? Do you think it's not ok to use Apache webserver software, or Linux, because mostly the people who wrote it weren't paid?

Money isn't everything.

there's a big gap between 'unpaid' and 'pay to play' though...
 

Cormcolash

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When the government say fund the arts they don't really consider rock bands the arts.....well until they break through internationally. And then they show up for the photo op.

 

hugh

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This is the thing, and something where I always struggle conceptually is the demarcation between 'participant' 'practitioner' and 'artist'..

I think there's probably a better 'greater good' argument for throwing money at the participation part (read about things like 'social prescribing')

but deciding where the line is drawn in terms of funding between the other two categories and who makes that call is problematic

There is a great essay I read a few years back for something I was doing about participation in art. I think the guy's name was Evans. It basically traced a historical shift (as he saw it) where the arts in general, but music in particular, became something that people watched/listened to/consumed as opposed to something that people did. The system whereby we (in the main) look up to professionals to do music for us rather than playing and participating in it ourselves (having the uncle around the play a tunes on the fiddle, sitting around the campfire singing a few songs, listening to your niece playing some Bach preludes on the harpsichord in the drawing room) is pretty much a modern phenomenon.
 

hugh

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Whatever about getting a ballet dancer to fix your shower - have you ever got a plumber to dance the lead in Swan Lake? Christ almighty.
 

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