Doping (1 Viewer)

[Unknown Convict]

kimmage was on the saturday night show tonight, peddling the same innuendos. even suggested those that join him on his hospice foundation charity cycle in italy will be privy to the rumours he couldn't share on t.v.

 

[CinnamonBoy]

If Kimmage followed your advice though and kept his trap shut, who would get the conversation /investigation started? Maybe he'd hope we all start reading l'equipe?

He admitted in the interview that it's a new area for him and is going to start digging and learn about it.

If you admit that rugby has a doping problem, what's your problem with Kimmage investigating and writing about it?

 

[Unknown Convict]

If Kimmage followed your advice though and kept his trap shut, who would get the conversation /investigation started? Maybe he'd hope we all start reading l'equipe?

He admitted in the interview that it's a new area for him and is going to start digging and learn about it.

If you admit that rugby has a doping problem, what's your problem with Kimmage investigating and writing about it?

i have no problem with kimmage (or anyone) investigating doping in the sport, once he does his homework instead of uttering insinuations and half-(at best)truths based on hearsay and nagging doubts. when he's equipped to make statements of rigour, supported by research and personal education, i'll be all ears, but until then his response to the "let's talk about rugby" question should be "i don't know enough about the issues or the sport so i'll reserve judgment until i do". he's been telling us for months - even last night - that he's going to start learning about the sport.

he's happy enough to muddy the waters between doping and legal (or not-illegal) performance enhancement, which adds, for those like yourself who "don't give a fuck about rugby", an unmerited patina of clout to his accusations.

i have already said i do think there's a doping issue in rugby and the sport needs a whistleblower of the calibre of what kimmage was to cycling to out the culprits. i've also said that i want to see it exposed and rooted out, but until kimmage puts in the leg work, he's not the man for the job and the media should deny him the platform he clearly relishes.

 

[CinnamonBoy]

Well I don't think our stances are too far apart so. I tweeted Kimmage today about the player who told me stuff and told him to contact me if he wanted more info. Because I think that lad could possibly be a future whistleblower. Or at least give a lowdown to PK anonymously. But I tweeted the same thing to PK almost two years ago when the conversation took place and got no reply. So, what can I do?

And while I don't give a fuck about rugby, I do give a fuck about doping and cheating, especially in any sport played extensively in Ireland.

 

[Unknown Convict]

good on you, genuinely, but this

I tweeted the same thing to PK almost two years ago when the conversation took place and got no reply. So, what can I do?

kind of undermines kimmage's case, in my eyes.

 

[CinnamonBoy]

good on you, genuinely, but this
kind of undermines kimmage's case, in my eyes.

Why so?

 

[rettucs]

kimmage was on the saturday night show tonight, peddling the same innuendos. even suggested those that join him on his hospice foundation charity cycle in italy will be privy to the rumours he couldn't share on t.v.

your last sentence there is ridiculous and you know it.

which part was innuendo? Do you think anything he said was untrue? that he lied? If so, which part?

 

[rettucs]

i have no problem with kimmage

you clearly do

 

[Cormcolash]

Well I don't think our stances are too far apart so. I tweeted Kimmage today about the player who told me stuff and told him to contact me if he wanted more info. Because I think that lad could possibly be a future whistleblower. Or at least give a lowdown to PK anonymously. But I tweeted the same thing to PK almost two years ago when the conversation took place and got no reply. So, what can I do?

And while I don't give a fuck about rugby, I do give a fuck about doping and cheating, especially in any sport played extensively in Ireland.

You should have tweeted Kimmage to tell him you will introduce him to sexy Brazilian bi-sexuals

 

[Unknown Convict]

Why so?

it's negligent at best, even wilfully so, if he's not following leads. curious to hear if he gets back to you. the sports world is a very different place now from how it was when rough ride was published in 1990 and i think there's a genuine public appetite to uncover sporting cheats. if he doesn't advance the story, he's merely p.r. for laurent benezech.

your last sentence there is ridiculous and you know it.

what's ridiculous is he's using information he intimates he has, but is either unwilling or unable to divulge, as a sales pitch for a fundraising cycle for charity. uncouth and unseemly.

which part was innuendo? Do you think anything he said was untrue? that he lied? If so, which part?

he didn't say anything concrete. the closest you get is his assertion that there is some doping in rugby (with which i agree) and the implication that the argentinian 2007 world cup team were up to no good (though you'd need to know the backstory to figure that out). the whole shtick is based on whispers and imputation, his reputation, his hunches. twice he says "i have made no accusations at all", adds "i don't have a view on this. i have no expertise at all" and "i'm not attacking the game at all", but the general public will infer, by his mere interest in the subject, that irish rugby has something to hide.

you clearly do

read the whole sentence before you part-quote it.

 

[rettucs]

it's negligent at best, even wilfully so, if he's not following leads. curious to hear if he gets back to you. the sports world is a very different place now from how it was when rough ride was published in 1990 and i think there's a genuine public appetite to uncover sporting cheats. if he doesn't advance the story, he's merely p.r. for laurent benezech.

I agree with this but would add that, because there is more money in sport than every before, you can take it that there is more corruption, cover-ups, etc, than ever before. This goes for all professional sports. Every other day we hear about some scandal or other, including, cover-ups of doping positives.

what's ridiculous is he's using information he intimates he has, but is either unwilling or unable to divulge, as a sales pitch for a fundraising cycle for charity. uncouth and unseemly.

it was a throwaway, tongue-in-cheek comment, designed to draw attention to a charity fundraiser for a children's cancer charity which, from personal experience of the man, is a cause very dear to his heart.

uncouth and unseemly? If it raises a few extra quid for charity? Fuck that. Fair play to him I say.

he didn't say anything concrete. the closest you get is his assertion that there is some doping in rugby (with which i agree) and the implication that the argentinian 2007 world cup team were up to no good (though you'd need to know the backstory to figure that out). the whole shtick is based on whispers and imputation, his reputation, his hunches. twice he says "i have made no accusations at all", adds "i don't have a view on this. i have no expertise at all" and "i'm not attacking the game at all", but the general public will infer, by his mere interest in the subject, that irish rugby has something to hide.

I interpretted what he said a bit differently. On the one hand, of course he can't come out and accuse anyone of anything. He'd be sued were he to do so, so I think it no suprise that he phrased things the way he did.

One thing that you haven't mentioned, and that Brendan O'Connor failed to get his pea-sized brain around, was Kimmage's inclusion of non-banned medication in his definition of 'doping'. He referred to it as the 'medicalization of sport', and I have to agree with him. The same debate has been happening in cycling over the past couple of years, in particular, with a drug called Tramadol. Type 'rugby tramadol' into google and its fairly evident its the same story there.

I think we need to see where Kimmage brings the this. I wouldn't assume hes going to go straight for the jugular and try to uncover illegal drug-taking in the sport. Judging by his twitter activity he seems as concerned by/interested in the concussion issue, the taking of supplements by schoolkids, and the 'medicalization of the game' within the rules.

read the whole sentence before you part-quote it.

I don't think it would make any difference. You mentioned this above;

the general public will infer, by his mere interest in the subject, that irish rugby has something to hide.

I would contest that the opposite is very much the case. Its fairly evident how defensive people are already. Thats how I'm interpretting your posts on the matter. On the one hand acknowledging an issue exists, on the other getting all defensive.

Kimmage tweeted after saturday night's show that he was verbally abused by someone from 'world rugby', who basically accused him of sour grapes over the O'Driscoll book thing going sour. I would infer from this that rugby has something to hide.

 

[CinnamonBoy]

it's negligent at best, even wilfully so, if he's not following leads. .

I emailed the full scéal to a fellow Indo journo so will be interesting to see if he gets back to me. I do imagine PK gets a fucking heap of tweets.

 

[CinnamonBoy]

@Unknown Convict
@scutter

Meeting PK tomorrow for a coffee.

Anything you'd like me to ask him?

 

[Cormcolash]

If he's into Brazilian women

 

[CinnamonBoy]

If he's into Brazilian women

He has a fine wife who puts up with him, I think he's cool. Me and him get a hard on for doping.

 

[Unknown Convict]

@Unknown Convict
@scutter

Meeting PK tomorrow for a coffee.

Anything you'd like me to ask him?

show him this thread.

(ask him to get to the truth of illegal doping in irish rugby. and ask him to distinguish between illegal doping and non-illegal medicalisation of sport in general.)

hope it goes well for you - fair play.

@scutter - i haven't forgotten you. been swamped with work/accounts/taxman/superbowl these last 48 hours. will revert.

 

[CinnamonBoy]

show him this thread.

(ask him to get to the truth of illegal doping in irish rugby. and ask him to distinguish between illegal doping and non-illegal medicalisation of sport in general.)

hope it goes well for you - fair play.

@scutter - i haven't forgotten you. been swamped with work/accounts/taxman/superbowl these last 48 hours. will revert.

Is there any question in particular you'de like me to ask him ?

 

[Unknown Convict]

Is there any question in particular you'de like me to ask him ?

does he have any evidence for any of the top 50 irish international players doping?
does he have any evidence for any of the top 200 irish provincial players doping?
does he have any evidence for any of the top 300 european international players doping?
does he think there's systematic doping in irish rugby at club, provincial or international level? any other 6 nations country?

does he feel any responsibility to treat the issue of doping in any sport about which he professes a degree of ignorance differently from how he treated it in one of which he had an intimate knowledge? i.e. does his journalistic pedigree require a duty of care towards these other sports?

does he think rugby is riddled?

how is he getting on with learning more about the game, its practices and practitioners?

 

[Unknown Convict]

and by evidence i don't necessarily mean positive tests, which we'd have heard about anyway, but more than a hunch - let's call it the de brun test, for argument's sake. i.e. differences only logically explicable by means of doping.

also, clearly not looking for him to name names, not so they could be repeated anyway.

 

[CinnamonBoy]

I'll print that out and put it to him, I promise