Don't ever play a gig without an agreed price (1 Viewer)

ann post

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Sure I've mentioned this in other threads and often made soft suggestions of 'starting a thread'.

But lets be clear about the meaning if this:

If you are in band or in a position of booking bands and you are working any show that is not agreeing a price with every person who is on stage that night, you are adding to the problem.

If people expect musicians to pay for

Instruments
Rehearsal time
Rehearsal Space
Writing time
Recording time
Digital reproduction
Promotion time
Transport
Stage / Gig time
Food
Shelter

And somehow be left out of the loop of having an agreed and fair price for appearance

While still paying pre-agreed rates to the following

Instrument shops
Rehearsal spaces
Recording spaces
Post production services
Maintenance services
Music lessons
Reproduction + distribution services
music venues
Sound staff
bar staff
security staff
festivals
music websites

Then it should be pretty clear how this will all turn out in the long term.
 

ann post

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wait, what?

Spotify.
CD baby.
Banner adverts.
Actual band website hosting.

*This is very much not aimed at Thumped to be clear.

Also the time it takes to satisfy the varying submissions requests of sites isn't exactly paid by the hour.
 

Benny Cake

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I dunno, I've mixed feelings about this. That puts all the onus on the booker, who then would be unwilling to book less established bands for fear no-one shows up. There are occasions when a % deal of the door etc makes sense.
 

ann post

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I dunno, I've mixed feelings about this. That puts all the onus on the booker, who then would be unwilling to book less established bands for fear no-one shows up. There are occasions when a % deal of the door etc makes sense.

Unless the societal expectation is such that a venue claiming to be a music venue pays musicians an agreed price just like they pay floor staff, bar staff security staff and sometimes the booker.

The onus is currently on bands to just not do this ever.

Bookers can choose to be drinks promoters or music promoters if they like but shouldn't pretend to be one if they are only making money for the other.
 

Benny Cake

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Unless the societal expectation is such that a venue claiming to be a music venue pays musicians an agreed price just like they pay floor staff, bar staff security staff and sometimes the booker.

The venue and the booker are not always the same thing, and the band are not staff or contractors. You want to sign contracts with every booker/venue?
 

GARYXKNIFEDX

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I think unfortunately,the horse bolted on this one. The only bands that maybe could do something about it,are probably too busy moaning about streaming and downloading and made all their money years ago anyway.
 

ann post

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The venue and the booker are not always the same thing, and the band are not staff or contractors. You want to sign contracts with every booker/venue?

The bands are most certainly humans giving hours of their time to be somewhere doing something specific to their talents and the entire surrounding industry is based on this concept.

There probably aren't contracts at present so paying minimum wage can be avoided, and a specific gig contract that can be used a million times is a pretty good idea really now that you mention it.
 

Benny Cake

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a specific gig contract that can be used a million times is a pretty good idea really now that you mention it.

It's a sad road to go down. I still, in all my naivete, prefer working with DIY promoters who you can trust are doing are working as hard as you are, and if things go tits-up then you both have to deal with it together.

Of course on the other had if you're playing to full houses and getting peanuts, then by all means put it in writing beforehand that there's a guarantee.
 

egg_

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The onus is currently on bands to just not do this ever.
Dude, I respect your position, but ... well, I'll play any old shithole for nothing if I think it's gonna be enjoyable (and we can somehow fit it into the schedules of 4 middle-aged dads) and it's bad form to be trying to guilt me out of the bit of fun I have
 

snakybus

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Instruments
Rehearsal time
Rehearsal Space
Writing time
Recording time
Digital reproduction
Promotion time
Transport
Stage / Gig time
Food
Shelter

I don't think anyone expects musicians to pay for these. I think there's a decreasing expectation about a "musician" being a viable entity outside of classical music and wedding bands. People just want to get drunk and talk on the internet. Soon they'll do away with the drinking bit.
 

GARYXKNIFEDX

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The truth is,most bands are nothing but a hobby,like it or not.

If I asked people to guarantee my band an amount of money,thenwe should be able to guarantee we have enough appeal to draw enough people to cover that,obviously,the right promotion helps too. But again the truth is,most promoters are as lazy as the bands when it comes to promotion.

If I play music that I want to play,then I can only hope that with the right work done it appeals to enough people to put us in a position to ask for a guarantee. Until crowds start coming to see my band play and venues are sold out,I really don't have much clout at all. People are more likely to go to Venetian to see septic bands until the band is "something" and that something is happening less and less.

So,I think I'm more realistic than defeatist. I happen to enjoy playing music,wether in the practice room or at a gig. Really,with the popularity of any band I've ever been in,I don't consider it a whole lot different to lads who rent out astroturf for a match after work. They don't get paid to play football,maybe its because they aren't good enough,but I bet they enjoy it.


The horse bolted,long before I was even born.
 

GARYXKNIFEDX

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Venetian to see septic bands? What a spectacular piece of autocorrect.

Venues than see bands is what that should have said. And obviously that's in reference to smaller bands.
 
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