Climate change global warming natural disaster freak weather etc. (1 Viewer)

ann post

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Meh. I dunno why everyone is so down on data centres. We kinda need them these days, and Ireland is a good place for them. What would we do if the data centre that housed thumped went offline? Well???
I'm down on 1/4 of the electricity in the country going into them and that residential electricity is now under threat of blackouts. If they were doing this right they'd be setting up thier own green power sources rather than throwing the grid responsibility on the state. I know I use them, but like the bank bailout we have no says in the coming negatives for society.

I also read in the same sitting that if every data centre planned gets built, the load is around 3000MW which is coming closer to doubling the national demand, with no plans on how to generate that.
Irish consumers paying for western world toys, financially, societally and environmentaly.
 

ernesto

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Meh. I dunno why everyone is so down on data centres. We kinda need them these days, and Ireland is a good place for them. What would we do if the data centre that housed thumped went offline? Well???

Seriously?!
Fuck data centres.
It’s becoming an even bigger benefit for massive companies along with their tax avoidance.

If Ireland were to house data that just consisted of Irish peoples data and not multinationals data for Padre’s Facebook photos over in Spain, our data would probably housed in one centre
We’ve been here before recently lads.

Fuck data centres
 

egg_

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The world needs data centres, and it's most environmentally friendly to have them somewhere cool like here. The world is better off if we host Spanish peoples' facebook photos here rather than in Spain, no?

I understand @ann post 's argument that we don't have the generation capacity ourselves right now to power everything, but electricity isn't hard to move around and we already have interconnects with the UK. I guess if we're importing electricity to power data centres there's a balance between the savings made by needing less cooling and the transmission losses getting the energy to the data centres, but I don't know anything about those numbers
 

moose

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The world needs data centres, and it's most environmentally friendly to have them somewhere cool like here. The world is better off if we host Spanish peoples' facebook photos here rather than in Spain, no?

I understand @ann post 's argument that we don't have the generation capacity ourselves right now to power everything, but electricity isn't hard to move around and we already have interconnects with the UK. I guess if we're importing electricity to power data centres there's a balance between the savings made by needing less cooling and the transmission losses getting the energy to the data centres, but I don't know anything about those numbers

The UK is talking about black outs this winter so can't see them being much use. There's also the amount of water needed for cooling and where the water goes. Pumping hot water back into the eco system is gonna be disastrous.
 

Shine Vol. 2

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Read Jason Hickel's degrowth book there yesterday, went in a bit skeptical of it all, what with the Extinction Rebellion intro and neon green cover, but came away basically going yeah, he's right.

The human world is utterly fucked - utterly, utterly - unless the system of capitalism ends, no ifs buts or maybes, there will be no way around it. We either change that or humanity will end in 50-100 years as everything falls apart and the billionaires jet off to another planet. The only way to change it is from the ground up. I'm sure everyone on thumped is doing their part and hopefully more people will join in.
 

ann post

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RE: the numbers

The SEAI Energy in 2020 report is the source of the national demand being 5300MW*

During the first lock-down in April and May electricity use was initially down somewhat on 2019, but from late summer on electricity use has been up on the previous year. On December 7th 2020, during cold weather spell, a new all-time peak electricity demand of 5,357 MW was set. This was 245 MW higher than the previous peak set back in 2010 during the very extreme cold weather event that winter.
The number of 900MW is from the Irish times, Tue, May 11, 2021
There are now 70 operational data centres in Ireland using 900 megawatts (MW), with eight under construction with 250MW usage. Most are concentrated around Dublin which has become the largest data centre hub in Europe.

Just for reference.

___________________________________________

The reason I bring it up @egg_ which was in my orginal long post that *THE DATA DISSAPEARED FROM* was that in my twitter watching two themes are popping up.

A: politicians denying that we will experience blackouts this winter. in my experience this is a near guarantee of a few blackouts.
B: people dragging wind power as the source of this problem.

I am not making an anti-data centre in Ireland argument. I am providing the information that in very basic mathematical terms, we have overstretched our grid and now are being faced with the non-choice of either global snapchats or rural electrification.

The reason I brought it up is that two dirty power stations are likely to be fired up in november to cover 800MW of power shortage in Ireland. This is information that is relevant to a climate thread. I am not here to make a for/against data centre argument, I'm here to provide info that is worth knowing about where we stand with the climate. Anything that is using 25% of our grid has to be at very least measured and understood at street level.

What I've learned from two days reading about these things:

A: once again our planning people are running wild, this time with our power supply
B: if we'd locked in supply with the building of all these centres to be green localised power we'd not be doing this, that has to happen yesterday.
C: When awful storms happen this will get worse (note the ipcc report expects over 100% increase in storms)
D: I suspect the oil/gas lobby are going to spin this into anti renewables, where the problem was actually no planning.
E: If you switched the national fleet to electric cars in the morning we wouldn't have a hope.

Also note, 'Green energy certs' or whatever they are called are bought by power companies. They funnell some money into offset projects but they still pollute as always, these tend to be the power that gets bought in emergencies.
 

egg_

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All I'm saying is the world we live in right now needs data centres. Deciding not to have them here solves nothing, and may make things (even) worse globally (though as @ann post says we'd avoid some local complications if we did decide not to have them here)

Winter blackouts will be particularly bad for anyone who lives in a very eco-friendly house, cos they're probably heated via a heat pump, with mechanical ventilation and no fireplace
 

moose

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All I'm saying is the world we live in right now needs data centres. Deciding not to have them here solves nothing, and may make things (even) worse globally (though as @ann post says we'd avoid some local complications if we did decide not to have them here)

Winter blackouts will be particularly bad for anyone who lives in a very eco-friendly house, cos they're probably heated via a heat pump, with mechanical ventilation and no fireplace

Why do we need them?

Local complications like wiping out the last of our biodiversity and ruining the water table?
 

egg_

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Why do we need them?
Obvs humanity can survive without them, so perhaps need is an exaggeration, but the things that data centres make possible are useful/valuable for billions of people.

Are you arguing against the internet as a thing entirely, because of its environmental cost? If so then fair enough, but if not then it makes sense to host it someplace where its environmental cost is relatively low e.g. here.
 

moose

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Obvs humanity can survive without them, so perhaps need is an exaggeration, but the things that data centres make possible are useful/valuable for billions of people.

Are you arguing against the internet as a thing entirely, because of its environmental cost? If so then fair enough, but if not then it makes sense to host it someplace where its environmental cost is relatively low e.g. here.

I'm just asking questions really but I'm quite concerned about the environmental costs that you dismiss.
 

ann post

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Why do we need them?

Local complications like wiping out the last of our biodiversity and ruining the water table?

The (very very famous one) that might be across the road from us here in the west was claimed to be green powered.

This was to be an all new gas turbine system a few miles down the road.
The backup was to be a stockpile of diesel generators for emergency power just in case the Irish grid crapped out.
The water out was to be essentially at Oranmore - which is a complex rarified bay bridging between one type of rock in Galway and the Karst region of the burren, pumping hot water in there 24/7 so far as I heard. It has added complexity in that there is a huge network of underground rivers and turloughs in the region that all interconnect up to 15km (known) inland.

I am super hyped to sit in the dark with smell of diesel wafting through the house so Joe Rogan can talk to some fuckhead for 20 hours while I watch the Burren dissolve on the horizon.
 

ernesto

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The world needs data centres, and it's most environmentally friendly to have them somewhere cool like here. The world is better off if we host Spanish peoples' facebook photos here rather than in Spain, no?

I understand @ann post 's argument that we don't have the generation capacity ourselves right now to power everything, but electricity isn't hard to move around and we already have interconnects with the UK. I guess if we're importing electricity to power data centres there's a balance between the savings made by needing less cooling and the transmission losses getting the energy to the data centres, but I don't know anything about those numbers


As I've said before, there have been successful trials housing servers on the sea bed.
Natural cooling.
Put them in the fucking sea.

Fuck diverting our own resources for this shite just So some dickhead can upload a billion selfies.

Fuck data centres and fuck the government for encouraging them
 

moose

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The (very very famous one) that might be across the road from us here in the west was claimed to be green powered.

This was to be an all new gas turbine system a few miles down the road.
The backup was to be a stockpile of diesel generators for emergency power just in case the Irish grid crapped out.
The water out was to be essentially at Oranmore - which is a complex rarified bay bridging between one type of rock in Galway and the Karst region of the burren, pumping hot water in there 24/7 so far as I heard. It has added complexity in that there is a huge network of underground rivers and turloughs in the region that all interconnect up to 15km (known) inland.

I am super hyped to sit in the dark with smell of diesel wafting through the house so Joe Rogan can talk to some fuckhead for 20 hours while I watch the Burren dissolve on the horizon.

Yeah this was one of the scenarios I read about that gave me the opinion that building them here is bad idea.
 

ann post

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All I'm saying is the world we live in right now needs data centres. Deciding not to have them here solves nothing, and may make things (even) worse globally (though as @ann post says we'd avoid some local complications if we did decide not to have them here)

Winter blackouts will be particularly bad for anyone who lives in a very eco-friendly house, cos they're probably heated via a heat pump, with mechanical ventilation and no fireplace

You have to slow down enough to see I'm not making an argument against data centres though. All I did was try and get a measure on them because people were talking about blackouts. I measured them and they came up horrific, Data centres are the people you need to give out to, not me.

_______________

Meanwhile

In my usual cycle of occasional hours of sleep I watched a long documentary about the birth of Las Vegas.

It had
Water, cheap land and the promise of a train line otherwise it was basically empty (population 30 including speculators).

The entire premise of the town was initally the servicing of steam trains, which obviously evolved into bars and gambling and stuff but at the core, the premise of the whole town was to service machinery that was crazy inneficient but part of the economy of the time.

Federal authorities are expected to declare a water shortage for Lake Mead Monday, which would trim Nevada's allocation of water in 2022.

The place is actually start to really come into question as a long term human habitat at the minute as climate is heating and people tend to need water.
Just posting this as document - of course it reminds me of data centres, the rhineland, the coal boom, the auto industry - it's just one where the downfall into a desert ruin could happen in our lifetime
 

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