Centrist Dads just wanna get along (1 Viewer)

[JohnnyRaz]

Next Belle and Sebastian album title.

Paging @rettucs

 

[flashback]

to help get my bearings definitions @Lili Marlene

some centrist dad beliefs could be:

- the capitalist system is unfair, but a model of it could be workable
- we have a duty to help the poorer in society, but not up to the point of complete redistribution/recreation of societies structures
- everyone has the right to: bodily autonomy, chose their own gender, express their own beliefs etc etc., even if some aspects of these choices make me personally uncomfortable.
- wider society and the state can act to protect the best interests of wider society and the state, but I don't want a police state

or is that a bed wetting center-left dad? and a centrist dad is just a modernized version of george hook?

I reckon there's also an element of

- can't really be as fucking bothered any more, just kinda want to do a job, keep the gaff warm, the dog walked, and the kids fully stocked up on snacks.

Like, some kind of general fatigue and feeling of futility mixed in there.

Something started to slip in me when Boris Johnson became Mayor of London. Clearly that was a bad idea, but I was thinking look, there's nothing I can do about that, might as well relax and see what happens.

Next thing Brexit kicks off, the prick is suddenly PM, Trump is fucking POTUS FFS, everything is bollixed with pandemic, and Russia decided it wants to kill loads and loads of people, destroy large parts of central Europe, and start getting shouty about doing a bit of nuclear holocaust.

That feeling of stop it, honestly my job is wrecking my head, the plumbing in the gaff is dubious, and there's this screaming barrage of deeply upsetting horrific shit going on that I have no control over at all. I'm just a bit tired, my opinion doesn't matter, fuck it.

 

[Lili Marlene]

Ah i know a few of these lads alright, when centrist dads have had enough and go off the rails

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[rettucs]

Paging @rettucs

I was so upset by the slur that I wet my bed 3 times instead of the usual twice, last night

 

[ann post]

I kid but "there's a centrist dad in all of us" I probably actually believe.

It'd be naive enough to pretend everyone doesn't have bit of themselves right/left/centrist.
As @egg_ said years ago here, what presents as left at present isn't in line with what I'd have considered left in the past. The pile ons and the absolutism and the binary thought, but i still believe in social supports in society, nationalising a lot of things and not treating people like second class citizens which in my head are left things? I see the left as the force that continually has to drag the right into the present, and occasionally they drag us back a decade or two. I don't know what my right wing qualities might be but under proper questioning I'm sure they can be found.

Like people did vote in droves for marriage equality and the 8th, being binary about it, those are left things.

 

[magicbastarder]

you're looking at separating out fiscal and social conservatism/liberalism there too though.
i know people who would be fiscally conservative, but were happy to vote for marriage equality (because marriage equality didn't cost them money, i suspect).

 

[ann post]

eh?

 

[magicbastarder]

"Like people did vote in droves for marriage equality and the 8th, being binary about it, those are left things."

what i meant was that yes, these are typically associated with being left leaning, but on a different axis to left/right positions on utility nationalisation, social welfare etc.

 

[ann post]

That might be where you go centrist and I stay left then?

I think everyone should have basically free train or bus they can hop on. Doing that through private contractors is insane.

 

[magicbastarder]

i'm not sure if you're disagreeing with me or teasing out my point? i haven't stated a position there, centrist or not.

 

[ann post]

NO YOU DISAGREEED WITH MY POINT.

In my traditionalist left view you do what you have to financially to move towards an equitable society, how that falls in the current sphere of financial terminology isn't of concern to me. If I was american I'd be called a communist for suggesting nationalisation. If in Europe I'm going into fiscal liberalism or conservatism or whatever that's fine if thats the terminology. I'm dont see a seperation in what i think should be happening, i don't think splitting hairs over the terms moves me into another realm of desired outcomes

 

[magicbastarder]

my point is that there's a distinction to be made about someone's position on social issues - who they can marry, what they do with their body, etc.; with their position on fiscal issues - whether the state should provide social housing, nationalisation etc.

i guess in short what i'm saying is that the nation voted in a socially liberal direction on abortion and same sex marriage, but i don't see that as indicative of a general swing to the left, so to speak.

 

[egg_]

I was surprised at first that same-sex marriage was something the "left" championed. As a youth I had no idea how deeply marriage is baked into our culture, and would have thought we'd be campaigning to abolish marriage entirely instead

 

[Lili Marlene]

It doesn't help that there's two economically right wing parties in the US constantly shouting at each other about THE LEFT and THE RIGHT but pretty much only discussing cultural issues or very minute legalese, not to mention throwing the word "liberal" around very, uh, liberally.

I sometimes get very Wittgenstein-like, thinking that if we just had clarity on terms we could work it out in a reasonable manner, but of course the lack of clarity is kind of the point isn't it?

Maybe.

 

[magicbastarder]

I was surprised at first that same-sex marriage was something the "left" championed. As a youth I had no idea how deeply marriage is baked into our culture, and would have thought we'd be campaigning to abolish marriage entirely instead

i remember reading one or two vaguely self-congratulatory articles years ago about how the irish were supposedly socially conservative, yet we were completely OK with the leader of our country 'living in sin' while still legally married to his previous partner. wouldn't be allowed in england, etc.
but i think there is a weird dichotomy in ireland where we switch between 'none of my business' and 'this is tearing society apart'. maybe that's universal though, and the dominance of the church here just highlighted it.

 

[moose]

I was surprised at first that same-sex marriage was something the "left" championed. As a youth I had no idea how deeply marriage is baked into our culture, and would have thought we'd be campaigning to abolish marriage entirely instead

For me at least I believed that everyone should be afforded the same rights as married couples. In an ideal world maybe marriage wouldn't exist but in the mean time at least have it as an option for everyone rather than just straight folk. It's baked into a lot of our tax laws, inheritance, children's and parent's rights, and probably loads more laws so perhaps easier to change marriage than change all the other laws.

 

[Benny Cake]

"Like people did vote in droves for marriage equality and the 8th, being binary about it, those are left things."

what i meant was that yes, these are typically associated with being left leaning, but on a different axis to left/right positions on utility nationalisation, social welfare etc.

It’s called liberalism.

 

[David Kronenbourg]

I'm not a dad. I'm a dog dad though. Does my opinion count?

 

[nuke terrorist]

Identity politics is far more palatable to the corporate media than wealth taxes.

''I'm socially a liberal but I'm a fiscal conservative'' in American speak.

 

[ernesto]

I'm not a dad. I'm a dog dad though. Does my opinion count?

only if youre riding the dog's mother