Cancelled (1 Viewer)

Lili Marlene

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This came up in work yesterday, and obvs everyone was very much against Adichie, and kind of took it for granted she's actually transphobic because she doesn't say exactly the right thing. It's weird the way people conflate disagreement with hatred
I didn't look into it all too much but from what I could see in the original interview Adichie was asked a question about trans stuff and she uncomfortably tried to work it out in front of the interviewer before ending in a slightly confused place. Basically she should have said nothing and we shouldn't expect writing a fiction book to mean the same as being imbued with wisdom that the rest of us mortals could only dream of.


Two thoughts on this occurred to me afterwards.

First is this - is it plausible that when people say "trans women are women" they mean "there is a category of humans called 'women' which includes biological women and trans women" ... but so-called transphobes think they mean "trans women and biological women are exactly identical", and disagree? And all the gnashing of teeth is simply a failure to be linguistically precise?
No idea. SURE I HAVEN'T A CLUE. Being trans sounds pretty tough and i'd be inclined to say we should listen to them and support them but also we should not be giving out to someone for not knowing the exact ins and outs of every single other persons personal experiences.

Second is this - fantasy writers often construct worlds where words are all-powerful (e.g. Ursula K. LeGuin in the Earthsea stuff, also Patrick Rothfuss's Name Of The Wind books), which IMO is a kind of wish-fulfillment thing for people whose stock-in-trade is words. Could cancel culture be a reflection of us all becoming convinced that words are more important than actions, as a consequence of the internet making us all into writers?
I mean I guess, some serious matters of degree there though.
 

nuke terrorist

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Lots of artist types here, look back at your life's work and identity moments that can get you cancelled.

IT'S FUN

I voiced opinions on thumped between 2009 and mid 2010's that trans women being allowed complete in women's sport was unfair and selfish in that it put the rights of a small group of people ahead of the vast majority.
I'd now say this should be considered on a case by case basis.

tough issue but I'd accept I was wrong before and would be open to changing my mind again.
 

Cormcolash

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Sport needs to figure out a way to address this though, same as with the dopers. There's no easy solution, I'd agree it probably needs case by case basis. Or alternatively, just create new categories or something. That's what the dopers should have, a "Juiced-up to the gills dopers" category for them, whilst non-wankers can compete in the "clean" category.
 

taubstumm

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I voiced opinions on thumped between 2009 and mid 2010's that trans women being allowed complete in women's sport was unfair and selfish in that it put the rights of a small group of people ahead of the vast majority.
I'd now say this should be considered on a case by case basis.

tough issue but I'd accept I was wrong before and would be open to changing my mind again.

sure didn’t I do a whole thread that was all kinds of trans-problematic, fun times
 

nuke terrorist

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Trans issues were a tiny niche issue until about 2008/09 but by 2012 gender identity was a huge mainstream issue.
No one - even in the trans community - could have foreseen how many people have gender identity issues back in the 2000's.

We all had to learn. Unless someone is being expressly transphobic there is no point in being angry with people for not knowing the correct terms or pronouns e.g. I never heard the term 'cis' until about 2013.

Looking at social problems through identity politics angle doesn't always work - sometimes people are just poor full stop.
Also a lot of American analysis doesn't apply so much to the rest of world.
But yeah, identity stuff was given little discussion before in a much less diverse world dominated by white voices
 

therealjohnny

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rettucs

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Trans issues were a tiny niche issue until about 2008/09 but by 2012 gender identity was a huge mainstream issue.
No one - even in the trans community - could have foreseen how many people have gender identity issues back in the 2000's.
the irony of it all is that the trans athletes are probably the only ones competing honestly.

I missed this post last weekend, but a lot of stuff surfaced on twitter after a New Zealand trans weightlifter was legally banned from competing in womens sport.

Weightlifting, where the most effective way to cheat is to take testosterone, a fucking male hormone.

So we have trans athletes who are 'too masculine' competing against non-trans athletes who want to be more masculine.

I get that trans athletes is a very complicated thing, but high-level competitive sport is so fucking immoral, to me, trans athletes are like a breath of fresh air.
 

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