BREXIT (6 Viewers)

It's looking to me at this stage that the section of Britain that want to leave would be more than happy for the Republic of Ireland to take Norn Iron off its hands at this stage, and in particular the big orange pain in the arse that is the DUP, and then be able to leave the EU without all this hassle. I don't think there'll be another referendum. I think everyone knows it could easily go towards Leave again and would be a wasted effort. And I think Micheal Martin is canny enough to know that if he waits in the wings for just the right time he can be the taoiseach to "deliver" a united Ireland. However, what happens between now and then is anyone's guess. Possibly customs checks on the Irish sea is the only solution, I dunno.

Micky Mac may be waiting a while for that
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Corbyn is a disgraceful leader...I find his continued lack of clarity and leadership almost unforgiveable at this point.

I kinda think at this point, no more than brexit itself. unless Corbyn waves his wand and fixes everything with 1-2 eloquent sentences causing an immediate labour landslide victory while simultaneously solving all the problems of the electorate who still believe in the fantasy version of Brexit then he is going to be criticised. Brits of both persuasions need to stop looking for fix alls. There was definitely a sweet spot a year or two ago where he was right for a lot of people but now he's showing he's *HANKERCHIEF COVERED GASPS* human, and politician.
 
@annpost Yeah, it's beyond remedy at this point. But he's had two years to research and design and build a magic wand, really.
Corbyn has had a disconnect between his public and semi-private opinions on Brexit, that's one thing. He's not been able to coherently argue a position and has been carried along in the slipstream of all the extremely important stuff that May has been doing so badly....he's not been a meaningful part of the discourse for this entire process. He's had to try and find a way to lead a divided party without any clear opinion himself. Unlike May who has managed to bridge a bigger gap. He's done fuck all. I think he's been waiting for his members to tell him what to do, but they don't know. Also, in the two years since the referendum he's sniped and sideswiped from across the aisle when he could have been building evidence and then maybe even consensus. I know it's easy to criticise but Corbyn has not demonstrated decisiveness or leadership at a time when the Left is missing on HUGE opportunites. He could have worked to solidify Left Labour as a real the voice it could be. But he only amplifies the divisions in the party and looks lost and peevish in debate. The bollix.
 
So if Corbyn backs a “people’s vote”, and that becomes official Labour policy, which seems to be the way things are going, and they get the other parties onside and enough Tories, does it get voted on in Parliament and then a second referendum if there’s a majority? Is that what happens?
 
Unlike May who has managed to bridge a bigger gap. ............

.............I know it's easy to criticise but Corbyn has not demonstrated decisiveness or leadership at a time when the Left is missing on HUGE opportunites. He could have worked to solidify Left Labour as a real the voice it could be. But he only amplifies the divisions in the party and looks lost and peevish in debate. The bollix.

May just lost the largest margin vote in living memory. She hasn't bridged anything and her 'own' party are out for her blood more than corbyn dallas is. All she has been trying to do is stick to the letter of the leave vote and all its done has exposed how little interest the tories have in anything other than powermongering within westminster. Corbyn hasn't been hardline on anything, that is true. I think he's basically waiting for centre-politics england to realise what a punch and judy show this is. A lot of people would like to just drink tea and not be adversarial.

ALSO - one of the big names in the peoples vote campaign is alaister campbell. I've noticed him and corbyn aren't exactly skipping around britain hand in hand. I suspect alaistar and jeremy corbyn are having a little unspoken chess game, because all counted, they both want the same thing, which is labour in power. Its just an awful time to be in power. None of these loudmouth tories do anything but scurry off into the distance when the slightest mention of trying to fill T-Mays shoes comes up in conversation. Corbyn going in now would just turn him into the whipping boy for all the brexiteer fuckups. Nobody wants to do fuck all until they can be absolutely and utterly certain that they A: aren't going to get blamed B: can use whatever is left over to feather their nest. A Left leaning consolidated labour won't win any majority without leaning right to soak up a % of the sick of the tories but still right wing states.
 
May just lost the largest margin vote in living memory. She hasn't bridged anything and her 'own' party are out for her blood more than corbyn dallas is.
Just to address this bit (I agree with the rest of your post): What I was talking about in relation to May was more about characteristics of leadership. She has managed to drag on with the decision she made, despite being in a party that has probably more fundamental divisions in it than even Labour has. She's at least managed to get something half-way credible onto the table. She's in the worst position a politician could be in but she's going at it hard. I don't see any of that intense commitment and direction in Corbyn at all, and it's desperately needed. Not defending May here - her ideas are completely bankrupt, and her direction is brainless - I'm attacking Corbyn. It's hard to unpick this whole thing, it just seems clear to me that Corbyn and Labour had as much chance as May and the government to make a credible proposal that suited them, whatever that would be. All I heard from them in debates were unsubstantiated and disjointed ideas over and over again, and small thinking which would never have to be tested, and which unfortunately reeked of exactly the same superficial bullshit that the various Brexiteer proposals did.

(As if I know what the fuck I'm talking about. But that's how it looks from here)
 
I mean Corbyn is stuck in a old-school Left mindset, not necessarily a bad one, even in relation to the EU. He thinks that the EU is the vehicle for making Capitalism the only feasible means of existing in Europe. It's a fair point. But not too many people even within Labour can go along with that...and his inability to manage that difference of opinion and make a consensus is really problematic for the leader of the opposition party. He's the wrong man for the job, not that there's much in the pool of alternatives.
 
See this @ann post ? How could this be workable?

In the event that the UK crashes out of the EU without an agreement, all motor vehicles travelling between the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland and Britain will require the document to prove they have valid motor insurance in this jurisdiction.
...any motorists who wish to drive their car anywhere in the UK will need to apply for the documentation a month before their planned departure to ensure they get it in time.



Irish motorists will need ‘green cards’ to drive in UK under Brexit
 
See this @ann post ? How could this be workable?

In the event that the UK crashes out of the EU without an agreement, all motor vehicles travelling between the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland and Britain will require the document to prove they have valid motor insurance in this jurisdiction.
...any motorists who wish to drive their car anywhere in the UK will need to apply for the documentation a month before their planned departure to ensure they get it in time.


Irish motorists will need ‘green cards’ to drive in UK under Brexit

#FFS - Same reaction as yourself, I've no idea. I don't do the dublin-donegal run a lot these days but dublin belfast is every 4 weeks for me. Like half of buncrana is working in seagate in derry. Admin hell. the article in the journal about the same seemed milder.
 
#FFS - Same reaction as yourself, I've no idea. I don't do the dublin-donegal run a lot these days but dublin belfast is every 4 weeks for me. Like half of buncrana is working in seagate in derry. Admin hell. the article in the journal about the same seemed milder.
When I go to Donegal I go up through Lisnaskea then through Omagh. Imagine having to make this detour border.jpg
 
My Uncle Tweeted last nice he thinks the perfect solution to Brexit is for a United Ireland... Fucking horrendous opinion that reeks of Republicanism to me and a total lack of care for the xenophobia in UK.
 
My Uncle Tweeted last nice he thinks the perfect solution to Brexit is for a United Ireland... Fucking horrendous opinion that reeks of Republicanism to me and a total lack of care for the xenophobia in UK.

I'm pretty sure this is upcoming slow undoing of the woke youth in Ireland. The casual upthera/outyeblackandtans/britsout/stupidbrits theme bubbling around on twitter the last year or two going calmly in hand with the woke virtue bearing shite that is equally valuable and vacuous. I KNOW 800 years and all that shite, Like i'm of the border generation of having guns pointed at kids in cars, completely taking militarization for granted, bombings, shootings, beatings all being part of the day to day of being a border kid. I wasn't even near the really tough stuff that people lived through. The folks talking about this stuff now weren't alive for any of this, its sloganeering, and its completely comparable to the kind of disconnected from WW2 bullshit that turned into Brexit. We aren't smarter and better than anyone, we are people from 110 miles from that.


Sorry I just hijacked your post to have a rant. Carry on.
 
I mean Corbyn is stuck in a old-school Left mindset, not necessarily a bad one, even in relation to the EU. He thinks that the EU is the vehicle for making Capitalism the only feasible means of existing in Europe. It's a fair point. But not too many people even within Labour can go along with that

Well hold on, membership in the Labour party has gone way up since he became leader. Yes, many of the old Labour Blairites (and I don't even mean that as a derogatory term in this case) can't and won't go along with his old-school left politics and a fair few have quit over it, probably with more to come, but that's really no bad thing if you believe in his message.

...and his inability to manage that difference of opinion and make a consensus is really problematic for the leader of the opposition party. He's the wrong man for the job, not that there's much in the pool of alternatives.
Well this is it. He's trying to change the shape of his party while Brexit is going on, I'm not sure he can avoid one or the other and he's definitely spluttering on the Brexit part of it but then again, there's no fuppin solution to Brexit is there? Maybe he's right to concentrate on growing his party to the point where they can win a general election?

For all my moaning earlier about the first referendum, if Corbyn is getting strong signs from below that the Labour membership want a second referendum then he should start gunning for one, he has been elected on his "for the many, not the few" platform so he'd has to listen or else he'd need to go himself. But the People's Vote alone aren't the entire of Labour. I don't know what is actually wanted right now. Probably depends on where Theresa May goes next.
 
Well hold on, membership in the Labour party has gone way up since he became leader. Yes, many of the old Labour Blairites (and I don't even mean that as a derogatory term in this case) can't and won't go along with his old-school left politics and a fair few have quit over it, probably with more to come, but that's really no bad thing if you believe in his message.


Well this is it. He's trying to change the shape of his party while Brexit is going on, I'm not sure he can avoid one or the other and he's definitely spluttering on the Brexit part of it but then again, there's no fuppin solution to Brexit is there? Maybe he's right to concentrate on growing his party to the point where they can win a general election?

For all my moaning earlier about the first referendum, if Corbyn is getting strong signs from below that the Labour membership want a second referendum then he should start gunning for one, he has been elected on his "for the many, not the few" platform so he'd has to listen or else he'd need to go himself. But the People's Vote alone aren't the entire of Labour. I don't know what is actually wanted right now. Probably depends on where Theresa May goes next.


There is massive support for a second referendum among the labour membership, the "I go to the conference and everything" type of member at least, the prospective labour voter though; especially the ones the floated over to UKIP notsomuch obviously, but I'm not sure how big that number is and on things like that there's a dilemma for a party of the nature of labour, whether you should reflect where your membership is or if you should reflect what your voters think. Strictly speaking it should be membership and then argue that those ideas are good, but in the real world I dunno how it really works. Fianna Fail are obviously an example of the listen to the voters style of party.
 

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