BREXIT (6 Viewers)

Because of the economic impact of falling out with a large trading partner which will effect the whole of the EU but us especially even if Ireland and the UK have their own chumy relationship it can cause hudge problems they might even just decide to blame us for everything.
Eeeek. Will prices of things go up? Travelling to the UK more difficult?
 
Think about this...
Last night the majority of MPs voted for Britain to be able to unilaterally leave the "Irish backstop".

That's basically them telling Ireland and the Good Friday Agreement to go fuck itself. That's the majority of MPs in Westminster.

The British parliament has no respect for other countries. The EU has constantly bent over backwards for British demands... always have to react to Britain changing it's mind.
It's time to tell Britain to leave. It's going to hurt Ireland a lot, but Ireland survives. Britain... well... Britain is an old country, fattened with privilege and delusion. They've never really had to survive - and World War 2 isn't comparable to the beating Britain has given so many different communities and countries around the world. More people died in the Bengal famine in the 1940's than who died on mainland Britain in the same decade. Anyway... Hitler wasn't attacking some stoic island nation. The Nazis went to war with an empire of 250 million people which stretched across the globe. Of course Hitler was going to lose against the British Empire.

So.. fuck Britain. Let the British people take charge. Fuck the British aristocracy. They've been a menace to this world for centuries and, if we're going to survive on this planet, they need to go.

Hear fucking hear.
 
I would have thought that voting to leave the EU was the "people taking charge" though? It was an actual vote by the people.

I mean, maybe another vote is needed, because if it is and they vote to leave again then that'd be the end of a large part of that political class in the UK who all want to stay.

I'm all for dismantling the monarchy and anyone in favour of it but for the same reasons i'm divided on the EU who seem very resistant to any kind of reform efforts.
 
Talk of what Corbyn might be able to get from the EU is pretty futile because he's not going to be prime minister in the next few months. His no confidence motion will almost certainly fail, and without that there's no general election.

Surely the sensible thing, given the parliamentary deadlock and the impossibility of squaring the circle regarding MPs not wanting no-deal but also not wanting the only deal on the table would be to teach the British how single transferable voting works and give the people a 3 choice referendum; stay, May deal, hard brexit.

Re the question about Article 50; to the best of my knowledge the UK can unilaterally revoke it but they can't delay it without the EU agreeing to a delay.

I don't think the EU would renegotiate the withdrawal agreement anyway they would like to replay the last two years because it was so much fun ? The best bet is probably a long term veiw that is some years of austerity trying to keep damage to a minimum. A re-entry into the EU would always be possible at a future date under different conditions. If a labour government will appear though it may have to wait some time.
 
I would have thought that voting to leave the EU was the "people taking charge" though? It was an actual vote by the people.

I mean, maybe another vote is needed, because if it is and they vote to leave again then that'd be the end of a large part of that political class in the UK who all want to stay.

I'm all for dismantling the monarchy and anyone in favour of it but for the same reasons i'm divided on the EU who seem very resistant to any kind of reform efforts.

Cameron's government in 2015 was elected by 36% of the vote. He really didn't have a democratic mandate to call a referendum in the first place. People may point to the UKIP vote, but even with that, they're struggling to get to an actual majority of UK voters who wanted the EU Referendum in the first place.

A lot of people voted to the leave the EU as a two fingers to the political establishment. What the Leave campaign did was to actually contact voters who MPs had ignored for decades. That's the not the EU's fault... it's the fault of Blair-ite Labour party members and the Tories.

The EU Referendum felt more democratic than anything most people felt before because the politicians (particularly on the Leave side) actually made an effort. But many voters had no idea of the implications of what they were voting for.

There might be a second referendum... but what will be asked? And when does it stop? Should there be advisory referendums about lots of other things?

If Westminster had an electoral system which resulted in an representative parliament, then I don't believe Brexit would be happening.

Having voted in Irish and British elections I have to say that Ireland is a far more democratic country than the UK.
 
It's the EU's fault if people voted against the EU because they saw the EU as fundamentally in cahoots with the MP's who ignored them for decades.

As for people had no idea of the implications, at what point do they have a clue? Who decides? Should we have another vote on repeal next year just to be sure or is that ok because the EU like it?

We took two goes at Nice (final turnout less than 50% of registered voters) and Lisbon before we came to the decision the EU wanted, is that how it should always go? Our constitutional ban on the death penalty was passed with a 34% turnout, should that be repealed?

and so on
 
Tell you what though, I hate that I'm arguing against people coming together in continent-wide union that should fundamentally be a great thing.
 
Think about this...
Last night the majority of MPs voted for Britain to be able to unilaterally leave the "Irish backstop".

That's basically them telling Ireland and the Good Friday Agreement to go fuck itself. That's the majority of MPs in Westminster.

The British parliament has no respect for other countries. The EU has constantly bent over backwards for British demands... always have to react to Britain changing it's mind.
It's time to tell Britain to leave. It's going to hurt Ireland a lot, but Ireland survives. Britain... well... Britain is an old country, fattened with privilege and delusion. They've never really had to survive - and World War 2 isn't comparable to the beating Britain has given so many different communities and countries around the world. More people died in the Bengal famine in the 1940's than who died on mainland Britain in the same decade. Anyway... Hitler wasn't attacking some stoic island nation. The Nazis went to war with an empire of 250 million people which stretched across the globe. Of course Hitler was going to lose against the British Empire.

So.. fuck Britain. Let the British people take charge. Fuck the British aristocracy. They've been a menace to this world for centuries and, if we're going to survive on this planet, they need to go.
tenor.gif
 
If they want brexit then they need to have the backstop the only real thing preventing that is Arlene Fosters continued hold of Theresa May in a headlock while some else is gives her a weggy. The parliament there is practically schizophrenic at this point and a big jeer at the ruling party before going for a night of champers doesn't solve anything.
 
We took two goes at Nice (final turnout less than 50% of registered voters) and Lisbon before we came to the decision the EU wanted, is that how it should always go? Our constitutional ban on the death penalty was passed with a 34% turnout, should that be repealed?

and so on

if ever there was an argument for why the Brexit referendum should be rerun, it's the Lisbon treaty. That was a total 2-fingers to the government, vote. They made no effort to campaign for it, and effectively said as much as it would pass without any effort. The people (ie: us) duly told them to fuck off.

Curiously, I voted yes in Lisbon 1. I was away for Lisbon 2 but would have voted No, again to tell the govt to fuck off. I'm glad I didn't though, cos that would have been ridiculously selfish towards the accession states admitted via that treaty.
 
if ever there was an argument for why the Brexit referendum should be rerun, it's the Lisbon treaty. That was a total 2-fingers to the government, vote. They made no effort to campaign for it, and effectively said as much as it would pass without any effort. The people (ie: us) duly told them to fuck off.

Curiously, I voted yes in Lisbon 1. I was away for Lisbon 2 but would have voted No, again to tell the govt to fuck off. I'm glad I didn't though, cos that would have been ridiculously selfish towards the accession states admitted via that treaty.
That's certainly a way of thinking about it.

If there is a second referendum I'd say they will really find out the level of support for the far right in the UK.
 
Think about this...
Last night the majority of MPs voted for Britain to be able to unilaterally leave the "Irish backstop".

That's basically them telling Ireland and the Good Friday Agreement to go fuck itself. That's the majority of MPs in Westminster.

a bit of context though. Who voted against it and why.

The DUP - cos they're cunts and fuck them
Labour - cos they want a 'better' deal and/or no Brexit
Hard Brexit cunts - cos they're cunts and a hard brexit will make them rich (and there's fuck all of them)
Other Tories - some who have a bit of common sense, others cos, well I dunno cos
SNP - cos they want No Brexit

In reality the only groups from the above that said fuck off to the GFA are the DUP and the hard tory cunts.
 
Curiously, I voted yes in Lisbon 1. I was away for Lisbon 2 but would have voted No, again to tell the govt to fuck off.
Haha that's exactly what I did. I think the same-sex-marriage referendum was the first one I ever voted in where my vote was on the winning side (I was living in England when the divorce referendum was run)
 
I live in the UK and I don’t think that’s true. People around me, remain voters, are just sick of the whole thing and now want to get it done and get on with their lives. The thought of another referendum is really unappealing. I’d say the result would be much the same or even a bigger margin for leave.

Re fighting in the streets, an MP was murdered in her constituency in broad daylight during the last referendum so I’d say it’s something to be concerned about.

As for me, I’m out of here soon if things fall apart rapidly.

Really yeah?
I assumed that it was very unpopular at this point, and the majority were basically begging for a second chance. Similar to The Special Donald situation in the US, i.e. massive train wreck, we dun fucked up, hopefully this will go away soon and in the mean time I'm going to try to remember to vote next election.

If what you're saying is right, that there's no stomach for another referendum and even if there was there's every likelihood it's going to be the same result - well, honestly I'd say it's such a serious decision even then they still should have another referendum.

I get the fuck the Ruling Class Brits angle. But those cunts aren't going to be shafted by this thing, those cunts have their money squirreled away in the Caymans. And yeah, the racists, ukippers, etc deserve everything that's coming to them, but more poverty and gig jobs and so on only drives more people to these extremist types.

If they say yes again fair enough. Yis are dopey fucks and you can fuck off whatever way you like with the proviso you're not putting a hard border in NI.

If they say no: halt it. The EU thinks the Brits are cunts already, that's not going to change. It's just not going to make everything worse. They can still halt it.

And yeah, violent cunts are going to be violent cunts. That's a constant.
 
Really yeah?
I assumed that it was very unpopular at this point, and the majority were basically begging for a second chance. Similar to The Special Donald situation in the US, i.e. massive train wreck, we dun fucked up, hopefully this will go away soon and in the mean time I'm going to try to remember to vote next election.
It's funny, it seems the feeling in Britain (reading various newspapers and listening to Radio 4, for what it's worth) is weirdly irrational. "People" aren't doing any more thinking than they ever were, as usual they're just reacting to the mess. I think it's playing into the hands of the hardline Brexiteers and building up a massive resentment against the EU. I'd say if there were to be a second referendum it might even be the same result.
 
It's looking to me at this stage that the section of Britain that want to leave would be more than happy for the Republic of Ireland to take Norn Iron off its hands at this stage, and in particular the big orange pain in the arse that is the DUP, and then be able to leave the EU without all this hassle. I don't think there'll be another referendum. I think everyone knows it could easily go towards Leave again and would be a wasted effort. And I think Micheal Martin is canny enough to know that if he waits in the wings for just the right time he can be the taoiseach to "deliver" a united Ireland. However, what happens between now and then is anyone's guess. Possibly customs checks on the Irish sea is the only solution, I dunno.
 
It's looking to me at this stage that the section of Britain that want to leave would be more than happy for the Republic of Ireland to take Norn Iron off its hands at this stage, and in particular the big orange pain in the arse that is the DUP, and then be able to leave the EU without all this hassle. I don't think there'll be another referendum. I think everyone knows it could easily go towards Leave again and would be a wasted effort. And I think Micheal Martin is canny enough to know that if he waits in the wings for just the right time he can be the taoiseach to "deliver" a united Ireland. However, what happens between now and then is anyone's guess. Possibly customs checks on the Irish sea is the only solution, I dunno.

You're spot on about Martin.
I think the electorate over there is in a reactive panic, as a result of (for better or for worse) having made a clear decision which their leaders can't implement. I think many of their representatives are dreadful human beings who have deliberately increased the confusion or are without ideas to improve it beyond the usual political jockeying. I don't think the electorate really cares about any of the detail, just as long as they can asap get back to the myth of Great Britain that inexplicably still seems to sustain them. Corbyn is a disgraceful leader...I find his continued lack of clarity and leadership almost unforgiveable at this point.

@egg insofar as the electorate are actually thinking clearly about the backstop over there it's a tiny issue for them....the memory of The Troubles is meaningless in their figurings. Why are the stupid Irish (backed up by their bully-boy allies in the EU) making such a fuss? And the only N.I. voice any of them hear is from the fucking DUP, who actually want all the bad stuff to happen.


"Shat upon by Tories, shovelled up by Labour" keeps popping into my head.
 

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