BREXIT (4 Viewers)

[_Katie_]

It's far too late to actually build the infrastructure for a hard border. Farmland which straddles the border will need to purchased by either the UK or Irish government. The border checkpoints etc. will also need to be constructed. It would take at least five years - more like ten or fifteen - for border infrastructure to be created.

A new Boundary Commission may need to be put in place - simply because decisions around where the border is will need to be sorted out.
The big difference is that unlike the original Boundary Commission, where Britain was the economic powerhouse and Ireland was a poor country having a civil war, the tables will be turned.

It's also worth considering it's highly likely there will be a nationalist majority in Northern Ireland in the next ten years.

I reckon there will be a general election in the UK and the DUP will find themselves out of favour in Westminster. The makeup of the UK parliament will be totally unlike what's it has been, but I think it's reasonable to assume that English voters won't have any problem with Northern Ireland remaining in the EU (as in cutting it from the UK; or the UK staying, in some shape or form, in the EU).

The North of Ireland will be a mess for the next five years, but I think what's going to emerge is a united Ireland.

A United Ireland is a very worrying thought.

 

[Lili Marlene]

Wow, so an effective border in the Irish Sea. Ay, that seems most the likely. It's a pretty amazing irony that it looks like the DUP might inadvertently be bringing about a united Ireland. Not that I'd vote for one - too risky for us, and they'd be fucking mad to vote themselves out of the NHS

I have heard through the grapevine of a microscope going on the Irish healthcare system in the US at the moment as certain presidential candidates try and not push healthcare for all but will be looking for something like "the Irish model." My hope is that there'll be a sudden concentration of media attention on the WORST FUCKING HEALTHCARE IN EUROPE that'll help push us towards a NHS system.

 

[_Katie_]

I have heard through the grapevine of a microscope going on the Irish healthcare system in the US at the moment as certain presidential candidates try and not push healthcare for all but will be looking for something like "the Irish model." My hope is that there'll be a sudden concentration of media attention on the WORST FUCKING HEALTHCARE IN EUROPE that'll help push us towards a NHS system.

DEAR GOD. The Irish Model - infect people with Hep C and HIV and try cover it up for years, also let women die of cervical cancer...Sounds like something Donald Trump would endorse TBH. Take me to the Hell World thread.

 

[Denny Oubidoux]

If we're getting a United Ireland It'd be cool if Brexit gave it to us - SF, nationalistic knobends etc couldn't claim any credit for it. I'm not sure the Republic really wants it back though.

 

[billygannon]

A United Ireland is a very worrying thought.

I don't know... I think an Irish federation may be better. Apparently on the island of Ireland there are more foreign nationals than unionists.

 

[dudley]

I'm not sure the Republic really wants it back though.

I'm sure we've room for it out in the shed somewhere

 

[_Katie_]

Brexit is more than just empty jargon — it will change your everyday life

"However, these benefits are at real risk of being overshadowed by serious concerns that such a sudden influx of people will further deepen Ireland’s existing housing, homelessness and rental crises which are already spinning out of control."

*Nervously twitches*

 

[_Katie_]

I don't know... I think an Irish federation may be better. Apparently on the island of Ireland there are more foreign nationals than unionists.

Would that be possible though? What percentage of Northern Ireland would want to leave the UK?

 

[Lili Marlene]

Would that be possible though? What percentage of Northern Ireland would want to leave the UK?

and what have we got to entice them? Black and tan jokes? Worse healthcare?


tangentially: i sat beside a lad on the plane the other day flying from London and clearly he had a Brexit Irish passport; he spent the entire flight going through it page by page, marveling at the drawings and trying to read everything in it.

 

[_Katie_]

I'm sure we've room for it out in the shed somewhere

Does your shed have the budget for 1.8 million people?

 

[ann post]

jesus north of the wall isn't all that bad. Just because the news is mostly bombs and people with brains made of static granite being allowed to make sound doesn't mean there aren't a million sound people up there. if you perceived dublin on a basis of reporting it would be mostly political lovers tiffs over a backdrop of homelessness and a fondness for lifers and healy reas.

 

[_Katie_]

Its not about lovely sound people though, its about the Republic not having the ability to take on Northern Ireland and the fallout that would occur socially and economically if it did. Dublin IS in a crisis state of homelessness and housing, and Healy Rae carry on is rampant!

 

[dudley]

Does your shed have the budget for 1.8 million people?

I haven't thought this through...

 

[billygannon]

The best deal for the North of Ireland is the Withdrawal Agreement (or the original proposal from the EU).
If the North were to remain in the UK, using a devalued sterling, still being in the UK market yet being able to seamlessly trade with the EU, it'd attract a huge amount of investment.

However, if there is no withdrawal agreement, the best option is, ultimately, for some sort of unification of Ireland. A federal arrangement would allow the northern unionists to retain their identity to some degree; budgets for the south and north could be controlled by local parliaments/assemblies; and the healthcare arrangements could be kept for the time being.

The thing is... Ireland can point to Germany and make the case that the EU propped up German unification in the 1990's. Politically, if Ireland were to unite in a relatively seamless way, it'd be a big win for the EU. I would expect a lot of EU funds going to Ireland to help with the transition.

Ireland really needs another big city - and Ireland needs a lot more people. We're far too exposed to the international economy and we need a bigger internal economy.

Whatever is going to happen, Brexit is going to shaft Ireland. Ireland has to change and respond to this new reality by establishing itself without reference to Britain and the Catholic Church.

 

[Unicron]

DEAR GOD. The Irish Model - infect people with Hep C and HIV and try cover it up for years, also let women die of cervical cancer...Sounds like something Donald Trump would endorse TBH. Take me to the Hell World thread.

I saw an infographic last year on percapita health spends and I think the UK only spend about an extra grand per person than we do. Obviously there's economies of scale, but they certainly get more bang for their buck than we do.

 

[billygannon]

The best deal for the North of Ireland is the Withdrawal Agreement (or the original proposal from the EU).
If the North were to remain in the UK, using a devalued sterling, still being in the UK market yet being able to seamlessly trade with the EU, it'd attract a huge amount of investment.

However, if there is no withdrawal agreement, the best option is, ultimately, for some sort of unification of Ireland. A federal arrangement would allow the northern unionists to retain their identity to some degree; budgets for the south and north could be controlled by local parliaments/assemblies; and the healthcare arrangements could be kept for the time being.

The thing is... Ireland can point to Germany and make the case that the EU propped up German unification in the 1990's. Politically, if Ireland were to unite in a relatively seamless way, it'd be a big win for the EU. I would expect a lot of EU funds going to Ireland to help with the transition.

Ireland really needs another big city - and Ireland needs a lot more people. We're far too exposed to the international economy and we need a bigger internal economy.

Whatever is going to happen, Brexit is going to shaft Ireland. Ireland has to change and respond to this new reality by establishing itself without reference to Britain and the Catholic Church.

Replying to myself...
Honestly... I've no idea what I'm talking about!

Brexit is bollix.

 

[Lili Marlene]

The best deal for the North of Ireland is the Withdrawal Agreement (or the original proposal from the EU).
If the North were to remain in the UK, using a devalued sterling, still being in the UK market yet being able to seamlessly trade with the EU, it'd attract a huge amount of investment.

However, if there is no withdrawal agreement, the best option is, ultimately, for some sort of unification of Ireland. A federal arrangement would allow the northern unionists to retain their identity to some degree; budgets for the south and north could be controlled by local parliaments/assemblies; and the healthcare arrangements could be kept for the time being.

The thing is... Ireland can point to Germany and make the case that the EU propped up German unification in the 1990's. Politically, if Ireland were to unite in a relatively seamless way, it'd be a big win for the EU. I would expect a lot of EU funds going to Ireland to help with the transition.

Ireland really needs another big city - and Ireland needs a lot more people. We're far too exposed to the international economy and we need a bigger internal economy.

Whatever is going to happen, Brexit is going to shaft Ireland. Ireland has to change and respond to this new reality by establishing itself without reference to Britain and the Catholic Church.

Any ideas on this one? I agree but what's the solution?


Thumped bands together to... um.... sell luxury goods to rich americans?

 

[Unicron]

Ireland has to change and respond to this new reality by establishing itself without reference ... the Catholic Church.

There is an awful lot of reforms that we could do for ourselves that might make some unionists less uncomfortable with the notion of a single Irish state, decoupling health and educational institutions from the RC church could be a big part of it, even the marriage equality and abortion referendums in recent might be appealing to "liberal-unionist" though they'd probably prefer to remain in the UK but have the same rights as residents of GB on that score.. Some of the hardliners will never be convinced obviously.

 

[Unicron]

Oops, as part of a reply I accidentally posted my unfinished thoughts on Jez and anti-semitism that I started writing yesterday and didn't get around to organising properly, please ignore.

 

[_Katie_]

The best deal for the North of Ireland is the Withdrawal Agreement (or the original proposal from the EU).
If the North were to remain in the UK, using a devalued sterling, still being in the UK market yet being able to seamlessly trade with the EU, it'd attract a huge amount of investment.

However, if there is no withdrawal agreement, the best option is, ultimately, for some sort of unification of Ireland. A federal arrangement would allow the northern unionists to retain their identity to some degree; budgets for the south and north could be controlled by local parliaments/assemblies; and the healthcare arrangements could be kept for the time being.

The thing is... Ireland can point to Germany and make the case that the EU propped up German unification in the 1990's. Politically, if Ireland were to unite in a relatively seamless way, it'd be a big win for the EU. I would expect a lot of EU funds going to Ireland to help with the transition.

Ireland really needs another big city - and Ireland needs a lot more people. We're far too exposed to the international economy and we need a bigger internal economy.

Whatever is going to happen, Brexit is going to shaft Ireland. Ireland has to change and respond to this new reality by establishing itself without reference to Britain and the Catholic Church.

If this scenario occurred, it would be very attractive. I really hope you're right. I suspect with a dwindling DUP presence in Parliament the Tories would be only delighted to cut ties with Northern Ireland and watch as chaos descends.

Maybe I'm a pessimist? Or I read Milkman recently and also a book about the decline of the Soviet Union and have lost my mind.