BREXIT (3 Viewers)

Positive Marlene

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Have to agree. Perhaps he's just playing politics and if he is and it works fair play to him but he's just not impressive is he? Others in the party such as David Lammy seem to have a lot more about them. In the US you have these fresh voices on the left like Bernie, Beto and Ocasio-Cortez speaking with a very clear message. Corbyn is an altogether more muddled personality.
Most people on the left in the USA say their main problem with Bernie is that they wish he was more like Corbyn, especially when it comes to foreign policy, and a "consistently votes right in a democratic district" like Beto is a non-starter.

Corbyn is playing politics alright but sure who isn't? Right now for the first time he's mentioned something about a second referendum and he's immediately being threatened with resignations.


What should he actually do? Genuine question. I'd personally veer towards a second referendum and that's the way it seems to be going, but is there a better solution?
 
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snakybus

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Up till yesterday I would have said that the Tories wanted the England of the story books back. They strike me as dreamers, mostly, especially Boris Johnson and Jacob Rees-Mogg. Posh fellows who were pushed around in school and read William Golding and didn't learn any lessons from it and love a jolly good war and a bit of adventure what ho and wasn't it great in the good old days when we stuck it to Jerry and had handlebar moustaches and picnics in the park and Rudyard Kipling and orangeade and I say isn't it an absolute corker of a day.

Then I saw a Leave campaign woman, a young woman mind, interviewed on Newsnight two nights ago saying that Theresa May and all the rest of the supposed moderates are in a cabale, a Remain conspiracy trying to mess it up for the people of UK, and that what the UK needs is Oliver Cromwell and Enoch Powell. She literally said that.
 

hermie

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Most people on the left in the USA say their main problem with Bernie is that they wish he was more like Corbyn, especially when it comes to foreign policy, and a "consistently votes right in a democratic district" like Beto is a non-starter.

Corbyn is playing politics alright but sure who isn't? Right now for the first time he's mentioned something about a second referendum and he's immediately being threatened with resignations.


What should he actually do? Genuine question. I'd personally veer towards a second referendum and that's the way it seems to be going, but is there a better solution?
Seriously? Only an idiot would wish Bernie were more like Corbyn! Well, I'm a massive Sanders fan. Maybe I'm missing some of the subtle differences in their political outlook but he's a brilliant orator and is very clear and consistent in what he says. Certainly it's a tricky situation for Corbyn when his own party have the daggers ready at a moments notice. I'm not going to pretend to know what his best course of action is but he just strikes me as dithery and not someone with great leadership skills. That he's more interested in getting into power than actually staying on point as to what his main policies are.
 

7 - No tomorrow

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It’s fresh to have an Indian perspective
Not least to show that the English have form on being utter disregarding haughty bastards
If someone Irish wrote this they’d likely be called bitter or unevolved or whatever you get labeled when you call the Sassanach on their shit


The Malign Incompetence of the British Ruling Class

Opinion | The Malign Incompetence of the British Ruling Class
 

JohnnyRaz

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Up till yesterday I would have said that the Tories wanted the England of the story books back. They strike me as dreamers, mostly, especially Boris Johnson and Jacob Rees-Mogg. Posh fellows who were pushed around in school and read William Golding and didn't learn any lessons from it and love a jolly good war and a bit of adventure what ho and wasn't it great in the good old days when we stuck it to Jerry and had handlebar moustaches and picnics in the park and Rudyard Kipling and orangeade and I say isn't it an absolute corker of a day.

Then I saw a Leave campaign woman, a young woman mind, interviewed on Newsnight two nights ago saying that Theresa May and all the rest of the supposed moderates are in a cabale, a Remain conspiracy trying to mess it up for the people of UK, and that what the UK needs is Oliver Cromwell and Enoch Powell. She literally said that.
together?
lord protector boris johnson.
 

7 - No tomorrow

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What should he actually do?
I'd like him to go back in time and not be completely MIA in the first referendum

He's almost as responsible as May at this point

I have zero truck with Thatcher, but the reason she looked like a good option to the Brits was dopes like Jeremy that made the 70s/80s Labour Party a dysfunctional mess

It's something to say that the Tories are in total and complete meltdown and they're still beating Laboour in the polls
That's how useless Corbyn is

We were colonised by wankers, or however the quote goes
 

JohnnyRaz

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It’s fresh to have an Indian perspective
Not least to show that the English have form on being utter disregarding haughty bastards
If someone Irish wrote this they’d likely be called bitter or unevolved or whatever you get labeled when you call the Sassanach on their shit


The Malign Incompetence of the British Ruling Class

Opinion | The Malign Incompetence of the British Ruling Class
yep - much of what the brit empire did here an elsewhere derived from a mixture on arrogance, incompetence, and indifference
 

Unicron

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It’s fresh to have an Indian perspective
Not least to show that the English have form on being utter disregarding haughty bastards
If someone Irish wrote this they’d likely be called bitter or unevolved or whatever you get labeled when you call the Sassanach on their shit


The Malign Incompetence of the British Ruling Class

Opinion | The Malign Incompetence of the British Ruling Class
Fintan O'Toole has had a lot of stuff calling the british chumps that are slaves to their imagined version of history in the past 12 months
 

7 - No tomorrow

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Fintan O'Toole has had a lot of stuff calling the british chumps that are slaves to their imagined version of history in the past 12 months
Yeah, a friend sent me this cos I sent her that Paranoid Fantasy piece Fintan wrote in the Guardian

I got asked twice in work this week what the backstop was
Brexit has managed to pierce the All-Trump-All-The-Time news cycle here

The paranoid fantasy behind Brexit | Fintan O'Toole
 

Unicron

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Positive Marlene

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Seriously? Only an idiot would wish Bernie were more like Corbyn! Well, I'm a massive Sanders fan. Maybe I'm missing some of the subtle differences in their political outlook but he's a brilliant orator and is very clear and consistent in what he says.
Usually the issue is that he has voted for wars in the past while Corbyn has been nothing but consistent for 40 odd years. I'd support Sanders too if i had the chance, but it's a fair point as far as it goes.

Certainly it's a tricky situation for Corbyn when his own party have the daggers ready at a moments notice. I'm not going to pretend to know what his best course of action is but he just strikes me as dithery and not someone with great leadership skills. That he's more interested in getting into power than actually staying on point as to what his main policies are.
I don't know about dithery, a bit too boring maybe, and an unwillingness to compromise himself, but I do feel like we've had enough interesting politicians getting us into this mess. What did i see the other day, someone saying the days of the "horoscope candidates" like Obama, who are so vague in what they say that it can mean anything to anyone, are over and we need people where there's a bit of consistency.

I mean, it's probably fair to blame Corbyn for not being inspiring enough over the first referendum but we're not there anymore. If people voted Brexit because they wanted change and wanted to punish the government I don't see the point in trying to fight that with Blair 2.0.
 

hermie

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Usually the issue is that he has voted for wars in the past while Corbyn has been nothing but consistent for 40 odd years. I'd support Sanders too if i had the chance, but it's a fair point as far as it goes.


I don't know about dithery, a bit too boring maybe, and an unwillingness to compromise himself, but I do feel like we've had enough interesting politicians getting us into this mess. What did i see the other day, someone saying the days of the "horoscope candidates" like Obama, who are so vague in what they say that it can mean anything to anyone, are over and we need people where there's a bit of consistency.

I mean, it's probably fair to blame Corbyn for not being inspiring enough over the first referendum but we're not there anymore. If people voted Brexit because they wanted change and wanted to punish the government I don't see the point in trying to fight that with Blair 2.0.
I think it's definitely fair to blame him for being uninspiring at the time of the vote. I mean I like his political views but he just seems so ineffectual at times. Dithering on the remain campaign, that stunt on the train, disingenuously claiming he can get a better deal from the EU. He hasn't really landed a punch during all of this.

Showing my ignorance here but what war did Sanders vote for?
 

7 - No tomorrow

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To be fair most Brits have no idea what Cromwell got up to over here, it's more likely that she sees him as some kind of champion of democracy. Sure isn't there a statue of him outside the House of Commons?
The attitude of the Brexiteers that the backstop is all just a bargaining ploy - as if anyone could have real concerns about what happens to the people on this island - says a whole lot about them
 

Positive Marlene

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It's something to say that the Tories are in total and complete meltdown and they're still beating Laboour in the polls
That's how useless Corbyn is
I'll let Owen Jones answer,


I haven't a clue meself, at least we can agree they're actual brits with all that comes with that


I think it's definitely fair to blame him for being uninspiring at the time of the vote. I mean I like his political views but he just seems so ineffectual at times. Dithering on the remain campaign, that stunt on the train, disingenuously claiming he can get a better deal from the EU. He hasn't really landed a punch during all of this.
I know what you're saying but i'd counter that he's doing fairly good with every newspaper in England against him.

Showing my ignorance here but what war did Sanders vote for?
This yoke

Iraq Liberation Act - Wikipedia

and a bit more context for the 2000's stuff in his wiki here

Bernie Sanders - Wikipedia

i can't be bothered to remember/google more, he's been around forever sure.

The argument as I understand it is that you are either pro-interventionist or you are not, and occasionally voting for war is a black mark you can't wipe away.

I still hope he wins the next election. Some say the most important thing in a politician is a willingness to listen and he certainly has that in spades, just put Cortez beside him to explain memes and racism.
 
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