BREXIT (3 Viewers)

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I wouldn't say it's the vast majority. I'd say it's more or less a 1:1 mapping with voting for Brexit.

Like, if you examined what you're voting for and decided Brexit was the way to go, you're an idiot. And if you voted for Brexit in an attempt to annoy The Man (or whatever other reason they came out with), same.

Fair enough, you can make the argument EU is forcing some shitty policies on others, but there's other ways to deal with this. I don't suddenly realise "jesus, I post a lot of shite on Thumped, I'd better machete off my hand". I could just modify my behaviour in other ways.

Idiots don't all have to be awful people. Nice idiots exist. Racist Trump voters aren't all awful people. I know the person that scooped me up and put me in his truck and drove me to the ER when I smacked my head and was pissing literal pints of blood all over the shop, is a racist Republican. He said horrible stuff all the time, he's still not an awful person in every regard, he does good things for people, regularly. He is definitely an idiot though.
 

ann post

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Hey I don't disagree, i'm just saying that, much like voting for the Democrats, the alternative to Brexit may be better but it's still world-endingly awful.

The colonized mind though?

Not even having a brexit referendum would have left them with the 4th biggest shout in the european parliament with the 73 seats they had. Whatever about having petrol and carrot issues, being actually able to do something about them is soooooooooooo far from them now compared to where they were pre-referendum. Now they are fucked and dependent on a bloc that they told to fuck off repeatedley under the hubris that trumps second term would be a refuge. If they had something good (which they don't, but anyways) they had pretty much a controlling vote in Europe. I'm not saying Europe is perfect, but alternative to brexit was keeping this much power to change it from within.

20200131PHT71510-pl.jpg
 

rettucs

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The EU is not a force for good, it signs trade deals that fuck over anyone working in agriculture, it is completely dedicated to capitalism which is going to lead to the literal end of the human planet, it imposes austerity and fucks countries like, I dunno, Ireland for a decade before pithily releasing statements going "oh btw, we realized austerity was a bad idea whoops."
that seems awfully like a plausible Tory manifesto.
 

Lili Marlene

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The colonized mind though?

Not even having a brexit referendum would have left them with the 4th biggest shout in the european parliament with the 73 seats they had. Whatever about having petrol and carrot issues, being actually able to do something about them is soooooooooooo far from them now compared to where they were pre-referendum. Now they are fucked and dependent on a bloc that they told to fuck off repeatedley under the hubris that trumps second term would be a refuge. If they had something good (which they don't, but anyways) they had pretty much a controlling vote in Europe. I'm not saying Europe is perfect, but alternative to brexit was keeping this much power to change it from within.

View attachment 15185
You are presenting this like it in any way contradicts what I said or as if i'd somehow disagree?

that seems awfully like a plausible Tory manifesto
Yes, vote Tory, that's what i'm saying.
 

ann post

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You are presenting this like it in any way contradicts what I said or as if i'd somehow disagree?

Kinda yeah but mostly probing at the idea that brexit referendum had to happen at all, that this was the options were that finite. - Like framing it as 'republican or democrat' in that it was a two party system - brexit would more accurately represent 'would you like to be republicans that can vote or not vote'.

Also I'm outraged that graphic got clipped. It should say germany 83 at the top, UK 73.
 

Lili Marlene

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Kinda yeah but mostly probing at the idea that brexit referendum had to happen at all, that this was the options were that finite. - Like framing it as 'republican or democrat' in that it was a two party system - brexit would more accurately represent 'would you like to be republicans that can vote or not vote'.
Well my take (in this increasingly convoluted comparison) would be that "not having a Brexit vote in the first place" would be a bit like Bernie Sanders being the Democratic nominee, yes it could technically have happened, it would have led to a better world for everyone involved, but no that was never an option due to 40 odd years of... reasons.
 

taubstumm

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Kinda yeah but mostly probing at the idea that brexit referendum had to happen at all

I often wonder about that. imagine if cameron had held his referendum because he actually wanted to, not because he was scared of ukip. they would have sorted out all the tedious details *before* the vote ever happened. things could have been very different. not necessarily much better, mind you, but different for sure.
 

ann post

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I often wonder about that. imagine if cameron had held his referendum because he actually wanted to, not because he was scared of ukip. they would have sorted out all the tedious details *before* the vote ever happened. things could have been very different. not necessarily much better, mind you, but different for sure.

It kinda in retrospect seems that so far UKIP managed to turn into half the country in the sense that tories have had to bow to them since to keep majority.

but no that was never an option due to 40 odd years of... reasons.

Way more than 40. Brexit floated on a WW2 vote at heart.
 

Lili Marlene

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Way more than 40. Brexit floated on a WW2 vote at heart.
I know "education is the answer" is rarely the answer but when you have a country who still thinks WW2 was personally won by Churchill in a Spitfire and the Empire built all the good roads everywhere and people should be grateful... maybe a bit of education wouldn't go astray?

but wait, that'd be critical race theory wouldn't it? Can't be having that. We need more statues, not less, more Churchills, not fewer, and, for the love of God, can you please just give more money to me and my mates, this Oxford reunion party isn't going to fund itself.
 

ann post

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I know "education is the answer" is rarely the answer but when you have a country who still thinks WW2 was personally won by Churchill in a Spitfire and the Empire built all the good roads everywhere and people should be grateful... maybe a bit of education wouldn't go astray?

but wait, that'd be critical race theory wouldn't it? Can't be having that. We need more statues, not less, more Churchills, not fewer, and, for the love of God, can you please just give more money to me and my mates, this Oxford reunion party isn't going to fund itself.

If trump 2.0 had happened they'd add brexit to that and deny that America saved them again.
 

ann post

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Anywhoo I know I've dragged this deep into fantasyland by splitting hairs about what no referendum would have meant - but value wise - being lucky enougn to only be witnesses to it is probably a good spot for what they call 'learning moments' these days
 

seanc

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I've had a few hours to ponder...they're still fucking bastards the lot of them.

I know nice people who I strongly disagree with exist. But I was referring to the whole tory party foostering about claiming that Brexit is great if we only just believe. Ignore the bad stuff.
 

Lili Marlene

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I've had a few hours to ponder...they're still fucking bastards the lot of them.

I know nice people who I strongly disagree with exist. But I was referring to the whole tory party foostering about claiming that Brexit is great if we only just believe. Ignore the bad stuff.
My actual take on the Tory party I outlined a few pages back I think, and it's still that. As follows:

"Me and all my mates deserve to be loaded, we don't care if they money comes from private finance or public funding. Aside from a few freaks who we entertain when it suits us, we have no overarching free-market ideology, we just care about being rich and staying rich. We'll say or do anything to keep it that way."

Once upon a time there was a genuine noblesse oblige idea that many of them thought was important, they were the betters and it was up to them to lead by example. Market liberalism and Thatcherism completely wiped that away.
 

magicbastarder

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i did see some comment that they don't really understand the significance of a £20 welfare cut, because as far as they're concerned, that just equates to a nice glass of merlot.
 

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