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flashback

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The fatalistic or capitalist realism idea that everyone is fated to become like that because of some received wisdom cliché about becoming conservative as you get older is not actually something you have to buy into if you don't want to.
has there ever been a time course done demonstrating this idea that people become more conservative as they get older?

You'd have to have populations surveyed over time, actually tracking the shift; as opposed to snapshotting many populations and implying they do.


turns out they might have...




I suppose even if it's < half a percent a year it's still pretty significant. Bugger.
 

Lili Marlene

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I've seen people on here objecting to centrists as leaders of the Labour party.
Well I was agreeing with you over that one.

And most everyone on here has engaged in some form of the the idea that there were significant numbers of Leave voters didn't know what they were voting for in 2016.
I still don't think anyone really knows and if it were up to me there'd be a second referendum, although I don't know if that would actually fix anything. I'm not in love with the EU.
 

Lili Marlene

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has there ever been a time course done demonstrating this idea that people become more conservative as they get older?

You'd have to have populations surveyed over time, actually tracking the shift; as opposed to snapshotting many populations and implying they do.


turns out they might have...




I suppose even if it's < half a percent a year it's still pretty significant. Bugger.
depends on the timeframe though doesn't it? I'd imagine the 30 years from 1980 to 2010 in the UK will have a certain slant that, say, 1940 to 1970 might not have. Capitalist realism again. There's also the argument that poor people die sooner since they're less likely to have health protection/insurance/money etc.. I can't remember the death age across classes in the UK, I saw some figures recently, I think it's not that different.
 
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flashback

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depends on the timeframe though doesnt' it? I'd imagine the 30 years from 1980 to 2010 in the UK will have a certain slant that, say, 1940 to 1970 might not have. Capitalist realism again.
actually that's a good point.

It still does depend on environment.

Huh.

The UK still has a decent enough rail network. If you were to Nationalise that, and then round up all the Tories, herd them onto the trains, train them all into central depots, and incinerate them en masse, at a certain point you might notice a "tipping point" where this effect isn't as pronounced.


edit: I should say, this isn't entirely my own idea. I was chatting with Jeremy Corbyn the other day and he was banging on about one of his childhood heroes or other, frantically pacing up and down, and it came up tangentially.
 

ernesto

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actually that's a good point.

It still does depend on environment.

Huh.

The UK still has a decent enough rail network. If you were to Nationalise that, and then round up all the Tories, herd them onto the trains, train them all into central depots, and incinerate them en masse, at a certain point you might notice a "tipping point" where this effect isn't as pronounced.


edit: I should say, this isn't entirely my own idea. I was chatting with Jeremy Corbyn the other day and he was banging on about one of his childhood heroes or other, frantically pacing up and down, and it came up tangentially.
Side note:
I recall looking at carbon figures recently and the UK is down year after year and definitely reaching their targets.
I’m nearly sure they are producing less carbon now than they were during the industrial revolution.
 

egg_

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Side note:
I recall looking at carbon figures recently and the UK is down year after year and definitely reaching their targets.
I’m nearly sure they are producing less carbon now than they were during the industrial revolution.
Yep, afaik you're right. You could argue that that's because they've outsourced almost all their manufacturing, but still, I guess on the surface at least it's a good thing
 

Lili Marlene

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(I've been reading through the twitter feed of India Knight) Why do people whose politics are demonstrably of the centre hate being called centrist so much? I know it's often used as an insult by the left, but so is socialist/commie by right-wingers and people on the left don't mind that at all, in fact they usually revel in it a bit.


Anyway, here you go, some centrist humour

 

flashback

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It's interesting that these days Right Wingers are no longer conservative. A conservative (small c) is someone that thinks things are more or less OK, and they'd like keep things the same. A radical believes things are a long way from being OK, and would like to make large changes.

The current Conservative (Tory) Party under Johnson is a radical party.

New Labour was fiercely conservative, Blair being an old fashioned / pre-Thatcher Tory. Corbyn Lab would be slightly less conservative, but very conservative compared to The Conservatives.

So you can be a radical right winger, or a radical left winger, but it feels like the original idea of conservatism doesn't have much to do with the current right wing parties.

I don't know why it weirds me out so much, I get when they say "The Conservative Party proposes these massive sweeping changes to..." they are using big c version of the word, but the word is meaningless.
 

Unicron

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It's interesting that these days Right Wingers are no longer conservative. A conservative (small c) is someone that thinks things are more or less OK, and they'd like keep things the same. A radical believes things are a long way from being OK, and would like to make large changes.

The current Conservative (Tory) Party under Johnson is a radical party.

New Labour was fiercely conservative, Blair being an old fashioned / pre-Thatcher Tory. Corbyn Lab would be slightly less conservative, but very conservative compared to The Conservatives.

So you can be a radical right winger, or a radical left winger, but it feels like the original idea of conservatism doesn't have much to do with the current right wing parties.

I don't know why it weirds me out so much, I get when they say "The Conservative Party proposes these massive sweeping changes to..." they are using big c version of the word, but the word is meaningless.
There is an romantic element to conservativism that does pine for an imagined golden past when things were great before things changed. That's how it's sold anyway, Conservatism is much more ruthless and forward thinking inasmuch and they think how their and their patrons can make as much money as possible in the future.
 

Lili Marlene

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There is an romantic element to conservativism that does pine for an imagined golden past when things were great before things changed. That's how it's sold anyway, Conservatism is much more ruthless and forward thinking inasmuch and they think how their and their patrons can make as much money as possible in the future.
On that, i've seen a few people point out that:

A) Blairism was dependent on the assumption that the north will always vote Labour and that's gone now, so the idea that the Labour party should try going back to that is foolish in the extreme

B) the first thing Johnson did after getting elected was go up north and talk about protecting the NHS which suggests he's more of a one-nation Tory than a tool of neoliberalism/Thatcherism. I think it's farrr too early to say what Johnson will or won't be but it's a fair point.
 

ann post

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how many fucks does europe give about brexit now?

Here is the first line of this weeks press release.

What will our MEPs be working on in this week's plenary session in Brussels? Highlights include the the final Brexit vote; common chargers and e-waste; and EU gender equality strategy
 

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