BREXIT (3 Viewers)

Lili Marlene

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This is interesting (it is just one poll and should get the respect one poll deserves)



So, do you think if you took away Brexit, and kept Corbyn's exact policies but with a different leader they would have won? i.e. If Johnson had been Labour leader would the much-more founded antisemitic claims you can make against him have not worked because everyone knows he has no actual values?

or do you think that three years of constant attacks with no real left voice in the British mainstream media (although the Mirror...) to fight your case are enough to wear support for anyone down because ultimately this is about who has the power/money and the answer is the right...

Genuinely unsure.
 

Bernie Lomax

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This is interesting (it is just one poll and should get the respect one poll deserves)



So, do you think if you took away Brexit, and kept Corbyn's exact policies but with a different leader they would have won? i.e. If Johnson had been Labour leader would the much-more founded antisemitic claims you can make against him have not worked because everyone knows he has no actual values?

or do you think that three years of constant attacks with no real left voice in the British mainstream media (although the Mirror...) to fight your case are enough to wear support for anyone down because ultimately this is about who has the power/money and the answer is the right...

Genuinely unsure.
I think no matter who the Labour leader was the media would have moved heaven and earth to stop them getting into power.
 

ernesto

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I think no matter who the Labour leader was the media would have moved heaven and earth to stop them getting into power.
I think They’d have a substantially better chance with anyone other than Corbyn running. He comes across awfully unlikeable in interviews.

Not Unlike the democrats losing against Trump because It was Hilary Poxy Clinton running for them
 

Bernie Lomax

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I think They’d have a substantially better chance with anyone other than Corbyn running. He comes across awfully unlikeable in interviews.

Not Unlike the democrats losing against Trump because It was Hilary Poxy Clinton running for them
I thought he came across as likable, decent, pragmatic and intelligent.
 

7 - No tomorrow

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This is interesting (it is just one poll and should get the respect one poll deserves)



So, do you think if you took away Brexit, and kept Corbyn's exact policies but with a different leader they would have won? i.e. If Johnson had been Labour leader would the much-more founded antisemitic claims you can make against him have not worked because everyone knows he has no actual values?

or do you think that three years of constant attacks with no real left voice in the British mainstream media (although the Mirror...) to fight your case are enough to wear support for anyone down because ultimately this is about who has the power/money and the answer is the right...

Genuinely unsure.
Everything coming off from voxpops is that it was Corbyn
Not sure how you separate the man from the policies from the leader and so on

Anyone else in charge, particularly a centrist, would not have lost bread & butter Labour seats

The English got rid of socialism when they elected Thatcher and they have not wanted it back since
Blair knew that
Meaning that Corbyn may have been a bad leader, but he was also a bad leader with policies no one wants. so I have no idea how you apportion blame within Corbyn
 

Lili Marlene

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I can understand voting for a personality when your choices are Dems and Republicans or New Labour and Conservatives and the difference is marginal so you throw your hands up in the air because you know it makes no fucking difference, but in this case it just seems like a crazy thing to do. Not saying they didn't do it though.


Everything coming off from voxpops is that it was Corbyn
Not sure how you separate the man from the policies from the leader and so on

Anyone else in charge, particularly a centrist, would not have lost bread & butter Labour seats

The English got rid of socialism when they elected Thatcher and they have not wanted it back since
Blair knew that
Meaning that Corbyn may have been a bad leader, but he was also a bad leader with policies no one wants
That's an end of history argument that doesn't hold much water anymore. HOWEVER, i'm not saying you're wrong when it comes to why people voted, after all so many are not happy but certainly willing to let their children die in a perfectly preventable climate apocalypse instead of making changes so why should they not pretend it's still the 90's and capitalism is fine. Or they've just gone full nihilism.

hmmm
 

7 - No tomorrow

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With all due respect Bernie, you’re fierce biased.

He comes across as an argumentative, on the fence, irritable grump that isn’t really interested in the job
Not to pile on, but he was completely AWOL in the 2016 referendum - because he's a Leaver - and let his party's voters down with a lack of leadership and clarity on the most important vote of their lifetime. He's as much to blame as anyone on the result.
Useless sod.
And he's been seen through.
 

Lili Marlene

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Not to pile on, but he was completely AWOL in the 2016 referendum - because he's a Leaver - and let his party's voters down with a lack of leadership and clarity on the most important vote of their lifetime. He's as much to blame as anyone on the result.
Useless sod.
And he's been seen through.
I think if he lost the vote because of Brexit then the Lib Dems wouldn't have been wiped out though, no? Everyone in England who isn't a columnist wants to leave (patently not true, but you know what i'm getting at).
 

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I can understand voting for a personality when your choices are Dems and Republicans or New Labour and Conservatives and the difference is marginal so you throw your hands up in the air because you know it makes no fucking difference, but in this case it just seems like a crazy thing to do. Not saying they didn't do it though.

That's an end of history argument that doesn't hold much water anymore. HOWEVER, i'm not saying you're wrong when it comes to why people voted, after all so many are not happy but certainly willing to let their children die in a perfectly preventable climate apocalypse instead of making changes so why should they not pretend it's still the 90's and capitalism is fine. Or they've just gone full nihilism.

hmmm
Not the end of history, just the end of the post-war consensus.
State socialism broke Britain in the 70s, and people voted for Thatcher.
The country was fundamentally altered in the 80s.
Blair knew that that genie doesn't go back in the bottle.
Whatever comes next for England, it's not socialism.
 

7 - No tomorrow

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I think if he lost the vote because of Brexit then the Lib Dems wouldn't have been wiped out though, no? Everyone in England who isn't a columnist wants to leave (patently not true, but you know what i'm getting at).
Yes, agreed. In 2019, Remain is a lost cause.
But I think the vote was on a knife edge in 2016 and Corbyn could have tipped the scales by simply doing his job as leader, but he did more or less fuck all. Cos he wanted out.
Everything since has flowed from that.
 

Lili Marlene

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Not the end of history, just the end of the post-war consensus.
State socialism broke Britain in the 70s, and people voted for Thatcher.
The country was fundamentally altered in the 80s.
Blair knew that that genie doesn't go back in the bottle.
Whatever comes next for England, it's not socialism.
Well not right now no, I guess we'll see what happens over the next few years with all the young energy.

Yes, agreed. In 2019, Remain is a lost cause.
But I think the vote was on a knife edge in 2016 and Corbyn could have tipped the scales by simply doing his job as leader, but he did more or less fuck all. Cos he wanted out.
Everything since has flowed from that.
Right yeah, probably actually.
 

Bernie Lomax

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With all due respect Bernie, you’re fierce biased.

He comes across as an argumentative, on the fence, irritable grump that isn’t really interested in the job
Just want a fairer society man, and don’t like seeing kids using foodbanks, and disabled people being forced to work until they die. Corbyn was the only leader offering anything to counter that shit.
 

ernesto

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Just want a fairer society man, and don’t like seeing kids using foodbanks, and disabled people being forced to work until they die. Corbyn was the only leader offering anything to counter that shit.
You’re not wrong.
But as previously posted, English/Welsh people just wanted out of EU and he didn’t appeal to that. Too wishy-washy about Brexit and that’s all people give a shit about because they’re too thick to remember life before Brexit. He gave the public too much credit.
Poor performance from him, Too passive alright.
That AND He was up against a charismatic caricature who wants to ‘get brexit done’. And that’s a nice simple choice for numpties to vote for, blind to the fact that they are green-lighting some nice right wing nationalism and further poverty and misery for the next few years.
They’ve made their bed, and now they’re going to get in it and set it on fire. Good luck to them and GTFO of there ASAP man before the whole kip burns to the ground.
Silver-linings:
great view from here,
DUP no longer in charge up north,
Scots might get their independence and become an EU nation.
 

flashback

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Scots might get their independence and become an EU nation.
If Scotland gets independence, then they would presumably become an EU country.

Then there has to be a hard border between them and England? Or no? That would be a bit of a pain in the hole. I mean... maybe less of a pain in the hole than having Florisham Beachypole Arch Ferdinand Boris Cavendish Johnson as your leader, but still.
 

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