BREXIT (5 Viewers)

ernesto

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I'm not. I'm just wondering if they realise how bad it looks to voters
again, youre making an assumption that they give a fuck. they really dont. been obvious quite a while now. even prior to Brexit.
they like planting shit seeds and they wait for their gardener mates in the RedTag Rags to water them and voila they have the dumb fucks of the population fooled again, also helps them that they have a shit educational system and it all feeds in to their disgusting rich gammony hands
 

Lili Marlene

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Jesus, the amount of cunts on Twitter simultaneously saying people are poor because of bad life choices while also defending Question Time guy with "80K isn't that much money if you factor in mortgage , childcare and maybe a divorce. Don't judge if you don't know, be more kind, life is hard for all of us. The real issue is high taxes on the wealth creators."
 

ernesto

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Jesus, the amount of cunts on Twitter simultaneously saying people are poor because of bad life choices while also defending Question Time guy with "80K isn't that much money if you factor in mortgage , childcare and maybe a divorce. Don't judge if you don't know, be more kind, life is hard for all of us. The real issue is high taxes on the wealth creators."
Cunts
 

Lili Marlene

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I think we can safely say that the "Corbyn is an anti-semite" smear has reached fever-pitch. Anyone who I know who isn't following this stuff closely firmly believes it at this point. I mean, sure, it's bad that most of the media and politicians who are cheering it on are also the ones happy to watch children be firebombed daily in Gaza ("it's complicated") but Corbyn liked a thing on Facebook once.
 
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Bernie Lomax

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I think we can safely say that the "Corbyn is an anti-semite" smear has reached fever-pitch. Anyone who I know who isn't following this stuff closely firmly believes it at this point. I mean, sure, it's bad that most of the media and politicians who are cheering it on are also the ones happy to watch children be firebombed daily in Gaza ("it's complicated") but Corbyn liked a thing on Facebook once
I can’t put into words the disgust and anger I feel at the right wing politicians and press for spreading these lies. I think British politics is affecting my mental health.
 

Unicron

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I think we can safely say that the "Corbyn is an anti-semite" smear has reached fever-pitch. Anyone who I know who isn't following this stuff closely firmly believes it at this point. I mean, sure, it's bad that most of the media and politicians who are cheering it on are also the ones happy to watch children be firebombed daily in Gaza ("it's complicated") but Corbyn liked a thing on Facebook once.
Do you think that jewish people in the UK have no legitimate reason to feel reservations about him?
 

Lili Marlene

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Do you think that jewish people in the UK have no legitimate reason to feel reservations about him?
The leader who has taken the most amount of action ever against antisemitism in the Labour party? No, I don't. But if we're going to throw massive groups of people in together as all the same, do you think muslims in the UK should have legitimate fears from any party that supports Israel?

anyway, at least the New Labour lads are admitting that they are Tories.

 

Unicron

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For the record he's my preferred option as PM and I don't think he's a raging anti-semite but that's not the same as not understanding how some people might feel iffy on him.

edit: even if it's just on an "he's an old white guy that doesn't get it" level.
 

Lili Marlene

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Thanks for the whatabouty answer?
It's a proud Irish tradition and a legitimate answer.

Why is no one in the press talking about the long, long history of antisemitism right up to the present day in the UK Conservative party?


Clearly antisemitism is something that exists, and transcends party politics but only one party is getting attacked over it constantly.

For the record he's my preferred option as PM and I don't think he's a raging anti-semite but that's not the same as not understanding how some people might feel iffy on him.
Yes, that's because you're a good person and you assume that people don't make shit up and disseminate it unless they mean it. And you'd be wrong, because these people are cynical careerists who don't care who they hurt as long as they stay in power.
 

ann post

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Its an age old political thing to throw out accusations just to push people to have to publicly deny them. Its way better than letting them be in the spot light and talking about their great policies.

I think the sad over arching theme (To me, IMHO) is that the brits have spent so long celebrating ww2 through media, poppies and endless bbc stuff on the great war effort that they probably think before brexit even happened that the germans were clearly not to be trusted, and the antisemitism trope is an extension of that. Its a way of quietly calling someone a nazi. ww2 is over, nearly all the people have died and psychologically were are still sitting in it in 2019. That to me is sad.
 

flashback

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Do you think that jewish people in the UK have no legitimate reason to feel reservations about him?
what evidence is there that he's antisemitic?
The only refs I know of are:

- giving money / time to Palestinian Solidarity Campaign, and working for Palestinian people's rights. (Which is not antisemitic.)

- meeting people that would be campaigning against Israel's treatment of Palestinians, some of whom would have been guerilla soldiers. If that makes him an anti-Semite (and assuming the people he met actually were antisemitic, and not anti Israeli aggression towards Palestine (which is not antisemitic)), this would imply the Queen of England is an Irish Nationalist because she met Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness. Which she isn't.

Essentially anybody that says anything about Israel abusing people's civil rights results in them being called antisemitic. Mary Robinson was called antisemitic. Noam Chomsky and Norman Finkelstein have both been "outed" as antisemites. It's a baseless tactic used by an apartheid regeme to quiet dissent, and it's effective.
 

Unicron

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I don't. I haven't seen any evidence of Corbyn being antisemitic
I didn't ask if he was antisemetic, I asked if there was reason for Jewish people to feel iffy on him. I don't think there's any question that he's said some dumb shit.

Putting aside the tin-foil hat stuff and the fellow traveller issues and look at a couple of minor things that I think are irrefutably "problematic." Probably the mildest thing that might be a concern. He doesn't do it any more probably because he's been pulled aside and told that it's a bad answer to give but he used to be a fucker for "all lives mattering" antisemitism, that is to say when asked if he condemns it his stock answer used to be along the lines of "yes, I condemn anti-semitism along with Islamophobia, homophobia, sexism and all forms of racism," which is a correct way to feel about things but it's the wrong answer to give to that question.

Similarly there's the whole "don't get British irony" thing. At the very least it was othering of Jewish people. Perhaps I'm being over-sensitive on this one because of my own background and objections to being made to feel that I'm not as Irish because I'm not from an RC background but that doesn't sit right with me.

Do I think that's enough to disqualify him from being PM? No, and certainly not when you look at the other option. I don't even think they're antisemetic in the "hates jews" meaning of the phrase but I'm not jewish and neither is anyone else in this discussion AFAIK and the last 10 years of discussion on the topic of social justice has generally coalesced into a theme of straight, white guys don't get to decide if something is OK above the feelings of a marginalised or minority group. As I said above, I think those things are down to him "not getting it" but I'm not really the type of person who should get to make that call.

There are other things which I think are up for debate, but to me the "it's ALLLLLLLL a smear" argument is a huge overcorrection. And it's really unfortunate that the whole "can't trust those sneaky jews" thing (which I'm not accusing anyone here of propagating) is in itself an antisemitic trope.

And some of his supporters definitely are.
 

hiadudiad?

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What are some of the specific allegations of anti-semitism against him that are not specifically Israel-related? A quick google yielded many unconvincing Israel results
 

Lili Marlene

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I didn't ask if he was antisemetic, I asked if there was reason for Jewish people to feel iffy on him. I don't think there's any question that he's said some dumb shit.

Putting aside the tin-foil hat stuff and the fellow traveller issues and look at a couple of minor things that I think are irrefutably "problematic." Probably the mildest thing that might be a concern. He doesn't do it any more probably because he's been pulled aside and told that it's a bad answer to give but he used to be a fucker for "all lives mattering" antisemitism, that is to say when asked if he condemns it his stock answer used to be along the lines of "yes, I condemn anti-semitism along with Islamophobia, homophobia, sexism and all forms of racism," which is a correct way to feel about things but it's the wrong answer to give to that question.

Similarly there's the whole "don't get British irony" thing. At the very least it was othering of Jewish people. Perhaps I'm being over-sensitive on this one because of my own background and objections to being made to feel that I'm not as Irish because I'm not from an RC background but that doesn't sit right with me.

Do I think that's enough to disqualify him from being PM? No, and certainly not when you look at the other option. I don't even think they're antisemetic in the "hates jews" meaning of the phrase but I'm not jewish and neither is anyone else in this discussion AFAIK and the last 10 years of discussion on the topic of social justice has generally coalesced into a theme of straight, white guys don't get to decide if something is OK above the feelings of a marginalised or minority group. As I said above, I think those things are down to him "not getting it" but I'm not really the type of person who should get to make that call.

There are other things which I think are up for debate, but to me the "it's ALLLLLLLL a smear" argument is a huge overcorrection. And it's really unfortunate that the whole "can't trust those sneaky jews" thing (which I'm not accusing anyone here of propagating) is in itself an antisemitic trope.

And some of his supporters definitely are.
Well if your point is that there isn't a single person on the planet who could run for office who won't have some follower who said something antisemitic then I agree. It's crazy that the side who is always being accused of unfairly having "purity tests" suddenly is the side that has to pass this one.

Or if your point is that there are people of Jewish faith in the UK who have legitimate fears because they are being lied to then you have a point, because there are people who are legitimately afraid because they are being lied to. There are also jewish people who support Corbyn, here is a signed letter by a group of 200 of them. You can find endless examples of this stuff if you go looking. And I just plain disagree that we're not allowed talk about it, no one is silencing or shouting down any Jewish voices on here.

As for, him all-lives-mattering it, here he is today, unequivocally stating:

“Antisemitism in any form is vile and wrong. It is an evil within our society … there is no place for it and under a Labour government it will not be tolerated in any form whatsoever,”


Will that be enough? No, of course not. It will never be enough. He could personally save 50 people from Auschwitz and they'd say he's antisemitic for not saving 51. They want him gone and they'll use whatever smear they can. So yes, I will straight out say it is all a smear campaign, and a very successful one at that, but it's not one led by Jewish people FFS, its led by the literal. documented billionaires of all races and religions, who know a threat to their power when they see it.
 
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