Asylum ,Immigration (1 Viewer)

[nooleen]

in both articles he decided to leave sudan for ireland based on violence back home

calling them 'different stories' is a fairly tenuous semantic distinction, based on the words of someone who speaks english as a foreign language. i wouldn’t call out the stormtroopers just yet.

 

[тхеодоре кацзынски]

In one he had already left when he decided going back wasn't for him. In the other he decides he needs to get out of Sudan.
The distinction is neither tenuous nor semantic.
His not being a native speaker doesn't ultimately matter, the difference between the two articles is enough that it doesn't come down to ignorance of the English language.

 

[nooleen]

and yet here we are arguing semantics.

 

[тхеодоре кацзынски]

But we're not.

1) I left Sudan based on a generalised threat of violence.

2) I was already out of Sudan when a personalised threat arose at which point I decided not to return.

They are two distinct reasons for leaving, it is not semantic pedantry to point out the difference between the two.

 

[nooleen]

he didn't say he was in sudan when he decided to leave it for good.

ta-dahhhh. semantics.

anyway, what trick exactly do you think he’s trying to pull in order to leave an advanced professional career in his home country to live a life of racism and poverty alone, away from his family?

 

[тхеодоре кацзынски]

You're attempting to drag it into semantics, the two stories are clearly different and contradictory.
I never said he's pulling a trick, I just pointed out the discrepancy in his two stories and the probable lack of full information regarding his time in D.P.

 

[nooleen]

no, they are the same story, differently worded.

what's your reason for presenting them as different and contradictory? why do you think he would change his story?

 

[nooleen]

Indefinite detention inevitably gives rise to the horrors recorded in the Nauru Files – the Department of Immigration has openly conceded as much in the past. That’s why Peter Dutton seeks to distract, in the same way his Liberal predecessors did before him.

To The Australian Government, The Nauru Files Show A System Working Well - New Matilda

 

[тхеодоре кацзынски]

no, they are the same story, differently worded.

what's your reason for presenting them as different and contradictory? why do you think he would change his story?

Ok, one last time.

2012 Story

After the suffering and pain, and like all those who reject injustice and inequality, I was thinking to leave the country, which represents my childhood and my youth.

I decided to leave the country looking for peaceful paradise and just to live in peace.

2016 Story

In Dublin he received a call from his wife and parents, warning him that representatives from the government had come to the museum and his home asking questions about his whereabouts.... “They told me not to come back. If I did, they would catch me, torture me and then kill me.”

So in 2012 the story is that he left due to the generalised suffering in Sudan.
In 2016 the story is that he had already left Sudan with work when he is informed of a personalised threat at which point he decides not to return home.

If you don't want to see the difference between the two there's not much more I can say.

http://www.britishmuseum.org/pdf/Int Training Prog Report2007.pdf

Here's a piece by the British Museum on the training programme he participated in. According to this he was nominated by the Sudanese authorities and was, at the time, a curator at the National Museum in Khartoum, the museum in Nyala doesn't seem to feature at all. Strange.

 

[nooleen]

Ok, one last time.

2012 Story


2016 Story


So in 2012 the story is that he left due to the generalised suffering in Sudan.
In 2016 the story is that he had already left Sudan with work when he is informed of a personalised threat at which point he decides not to return home.

in 2012, he describes how he decided to leave sudan for ireland
in 2016 (and also in another article from 2013), he describes how he decided to leave sudan for ireland, with added detail

If you don't want to see the difference between the two there's not much more I can say.

if you can look at a situation where a man seeking asylum from a major humanitarian crisis ended up losing 7 years of his life in detention, and your kneejerk reaction is to start grasping at straws for ways to suggest that he's untrustworthy, or somehow to blame, there's not much anyone can say to that.

Here's a piece by the British Museum on the training programme he participated in. According to this he was nominated by the Sudanese authorities and was, at the time, a curator at the National Museum in Khartoum, the museum in Nyala doesn't seem to feature at all. Strange.

hmmmm yes, very strange indeed, most irregular. so either he established a regional museum as part of his job at the national museum, or he's running some scam which involves not having a detailed description of his job responsibilities included in the report of a traning program he attended 9 years ago.

 

[тхеодоре кацзынски]

Oh please.
First he left Sudan to find peace from general violence. Next story was that he left Sudan with work (having been nominated by a governmental department) only to find that the government was now after him. It doesn't add up no matter how much you insist it does.

And again - were the seven years the result of one really long drawn out case or did he launch multiple appeals until finally he was given asylum? Given that the average wait in DP is 48 months my money is firmly on the latter.

 

[nooleen]

Oh please.
First he left Sudan to find peace from general violence. Next story was that he left Sudan with work (having been nominated by a governmental department) only to find that the government was now after him. It doesn't add up no matter how much you insist it does.

except for the record of him being on that training course? i’m sorry ted, you just haven’t swayed me with your comically racist conviction that this johnny foreigner must be up to something sneaky.

And again - were the seven years the result of one really long drawn out case or did he launch multiple appeals until finally he was given asylum? Given that the average wait in DP is 48 months my money is firmly on the latter.

what does that have to do with anything? the whole point is that the direct provision system is a shambles.

 

[nooleen]

Given that the average wait in DP is 48 months my money is firmly on the latter.

'48 months', lol
or four years in the common parlance.

sure wasn't he only in there 84 months, it wasn't really years at all

 

[тхеодоре кацзынски]

You are being willfully obtuse right?
It is accepted as fact that he travelled to the UK to participate in a training course with the British Museum. The question arises as to his arrival in Ireland and subsequent application for asylum - did he decide before leaving Sudan that he was going to stay away as suggested in the 2012 story, or, did he travel fully intending to return home, this until he received a phone call warning of a potential threat to his life at which point he decided not to return, this as per the 2016 story?
If you're going to try and claim there is no difference between these two stories then I will have to assume that you are being willfully obtuse.

You will be able to point out where I have made any suggestion that he's up to something sneaky won't you? Or is it just another part of your fantasy world where every refugee is as pure as the driven snow, and everyone that dares question a refugee is obviously guided by racist convictions?

There's no doubt that the system is a shambles, however, as I noted at the beginning this is due in no small part to multiple appeals clogging up the system. So, is this guy completely blameless in his application taking seven years or was the delay over the average time due to his lodging appeals? If it is the latter then the newspaper has sold a story without telling the full story. But hey, it must be racist to dare ask that question too right?

Lol indeed.

 

[nooleen]

You will be able to point out where I have made any suggestion that he's up to something sneaky won't you?

sure thing. here you go.

He tells a different story back in 2012

the problem then is that this phonecall from Sudan does not tie in with his story.

In one he had already left when he decided going back wasn't for him. In the other he decides he needs to get out of Sudan.

just pointed out the discrepancy in his two stories

the two stories are clearly different and contradictory.

It doesn't add up no matter how much you insist it does.

 

[тхеодоре кацзынски]

I pointed out a difference between his two stories and due to your insistence that nothing was amiss I needed to make the point multiple times. I have not suggested he is up to something sneaky, that you leapt to that assumption is your problem, not mine.

 

[nooleen]

oh right. so you don't think he was lying then?

what is it that you think is 'amiss'? do you reckon he had a stroke while telling one of the stories or something?

if you were simply concerned about the guy's health all along this has been a terrible misunderstanding.

 

[тхеодоре кацзынски]

Again, I pointed out the difference between his two stories and nothing more. That you couldn't accept that is your problem, not mine.
Anyway, this has long since passed into 'boring' territory, the fault there being mine - I forgot that Nooly can never possibly be wrong.

 

[nooleen]

this has long since passed into 'jack black and his dog silver' territory.

don’t worry ted, i’m sure you’ll catch him out eventually. the sneaky turk, trying to jew us out of our precious asylum.

 

[nooleen]

This Q&A Questioner Just Broke The Law To Slam Government Over Nauru

Teacher Tracey Donehue told the Q&A audience via videolink on Monday night about the mistreatment she witnessed working at the Nauru refugee camp.

But as panelist and comedian-turned-trainee lawyer Corinne Grant pointed out, Donehue was breaking the law by publicly speaking out about the mistreatment she witnessed at the detention centre.

"Telling us what she saw in that detention centre exposes her to two years in jail under the Australian Border Force Act," Grant said on the program. "Section 42D makes it illegal for any kind of worker or employee who was working in those detention centres to make public what has happened. That includes doctors and psychiatrists who have a professional obligation to report to their peak bodies when someone has been abused."