Architectural Mistakes and Monstrosities (1 Viewer)

[frona]

I saw the Wonderful Barn for the first from the road on me way to band practice this weekend. I was very excited!


We used to have a cool looking mill like that Bolands one in Limerick but they knocked it. There are still bits of it (I that's what they are) down the Dock Road in Limerick and they are pretty cool.

 

[magicbastarder]

speaking of old buildings, i was in one the far side of ballinasloe during the summer - a place called woodlawn house. it was put on the market in 2001, asking about 900k, and that included over 100 acres of land, and all outbuildings.

it hasn't been occupied since the mid 70s, but is structurally still surprisingly sound; though the roof has fallen in in a couple of spots, with the expected collapse of floors below.
it's a palladian mansion, three storeys over basement in the central section, and two storeys over basement in the wings. it's over 30,000 square foot, and has (i think) 26 bedrooms.
anyway, it hasn't sold - possibly a lot to do with the condition that it can't be turned into a country club, if sold. but i'd say you're looking at a restoration cost of 10 million at least.

and that's the rub. i'd love if the place was restored, but no-one is going to do anything with it unless it's to turn it into a golf club. and it's the same with most old buildings - unless you can find a contemporary use for them, they'll fall into disrepair to the point where the only option is demolition.

 

[therealjohnny]

i'd love if the place was restored, but no-one is going to do anything with it unless it's to turn it into a golf club. and it's the same with most old buildings - unless you can find a contemporary use for them, they'll fall into disrepair to the point where the only option is demolition.

This really is a problem. I know a guy (brother of a friend) who owns a house on Henrietta Street- it's barely habitable but the strict re-developing guidelines such as period plumbing/electrics etc are a pain in the hole

he's been refurbishing it for decades now


Victorian Dad wha'?

http://www.stefanoscata.com/story.asp?story=37&page=1&rows=4&mode=4

 

[magicbastarder]

he's been refurbishing it for decades now

does he get grants to help?

 

[potlatch]

This really is a problem. I know a guy (brother of a friend) who owns a house on Henrietta Street- it's barely habitable but the strict re-developing guidelines such as period plumbing/electrics etc are a pain in the hole

he's been refurbishing it for decades now


Victorian Dad wha'?

http://www.stefanoscata.com/story.asp?story=37&page=1&rows=4&mode=4

Ye can get thems houses for a Euro.

 

[therealjohnny]

does he get grants to help?

I'm pretty sure he does

That moustache requires a lot of maintenence

 

[coast to coast]

WHAT? THEY ARE KNOCKING THE WONDERFUL BARN?

I don't think they can do that, actually. I'm pretty sure it's got special status. I know it's on the WMF's most endangered list. They can build near it, but I don't think they can knock the fucker.

Fucking hell. There's such a great network of buildings put up by Speaker Connolly and his family, and they were so odd and interesting, and their buildings are so cool, that they should all have automatic special status. The Hellfire Club, the 18th-century work on Rathfarnham, Castletown House, the Wonderful Barn, etc etc -- some of the most interesting 18th-century buildings were Connolly-sponsored.

In some ways, though, he and his family did the exact same kind of damage within an 18th-century context that's being done now. Makes me wonder will people look back on the 21st century at the 'achievements' of twatfarms like Zoe Developments.

I've never been to the Wonderful Barn. I'd love to do a project on it with the kiddies. They'd be well into it.

the guy who bought the nun's gaff across the road from me in terenure knocked it down the day after he bought it or somehting like that, even though it was under review for protected status. hope the fucker has to build the whole thing again brick by brick. naughty boy.

 

[shitepipe]

the guy who bought the nun's gaff across the road from me in terenure knocked it down the day after he bought it or somehting like that, even though it was under review for protected status. hope the fucker has to build the whole thing again brick by brick. naughty boy.

he does

 

[jane]

the guy who bought the nun's gaff across the road from me in terenure knocked it down the day after he bought it or somehting like that, even though it was under review for protected status. hope the fucker has to build the whole thing again brick by brick. naughty boy.

One of the problems with protecting structures using legislation is that there are all sorts of ways to get around it, and it's difficult to enforce the laws in ways that are effective. For some people, the fines they incur by knocking down a structure are far less than the profit they can make -- even after paying the fine (which, really, then, is just a 'destruction tax') -- by knocking it and building something new. Until the 1994 National Monuments Amendments Act, even though everything was technically protected by law, the punishment for destroying one was generally a really small fine, so miniscule that it was not a deterrent. Even now, for a lot of developers, the fines are still less of a burden than having their development held up by excavation, or by having to retain an older building that might get in the way of the horrible glass-fronted fecker they want to build. So they take a chance and knock shit (Apparently, Bank Holiday weekends are popular occasions for knocking unwanted historic structures.), and most of the time, they aren't caught. And if they are, it's not that common to be forced to rebuild (and is a rebuild actually the same thing? That's another discussion entirely.) or do more than pay a fine, which they can also usually get out of. Another thing they do is use a loophole for 'unsafe structures'. They let a building fall into such ruin that it falls under the category for unsafe structures and can be demolished without any problem. I'm currently watching with great bummerness a very cute house right on Sandymount strand (go take a look, if you're around -- it's on the corner of Seafort Ave and the STrand Rd), fall into what is probably deliberate decay. Either that, or it's held up in a family squabble over a will. Possibly both.

But rather than just pay fines or get slaps on wrists, I do think that people who build with such a lack of foresight (whether that's knocking an old building or simply building something that is going to have a negative impact on the landscape) should not be allowed to carry out any more construction projects. Fines are not a deterrent. Scandal in the media is not a deterrent.

So the problem is that the laws can be as strict as they want. In Ireland, heritage legislation is extremely strict -- archaeological legislation is some of the most Draconian in the world -- but historic places are only going to be protected if people want them to be, if they consider them relevant to their lives. We archaeologists have shitty relationships with developers and shitty relationships with the public, and we're generally doing a fucking atrocious job. All of us. We're all fricking guilty of it, just as developers are guilty of being greedy.

It's not a lack of respect for the monuments of the past that makes people knock these things down, or build so close to them that communities are cut off from them, it's a lack of respect for people in the present, and a lack of foresight that makes shitty, greedy fucking developers infallible. That, and having the government in their pockets.

So yeah, it might be possible to protest the development around the Wonderful Barn, and we can cite laws and regulations and tradition and all that, but heritage laws can only keep buildings standing. They can do no more than that, and oftentimes, they can't even do that. It's not a lack of respect for the past. It's a lack of respect for living, breathing humans, and a willingness to sell your neighbour's well-being for a quick buck.

Holy smokes, where'd that rant come from? I dunno. Me, neither. Let's get out of here!

 

[the bongo]

Ye can get thems houses for a Euro.

Do tell me more....

 

[therealjohnny]

Do tell me more....

€1.46

 

[the bongo]

that's €0.46 too much, and here i was hoping to go fromhttp://www.stefanoscata.com/story.asp?story=37&page=1&rows=4&mode=4 to http://www2.rfc1149.net/albums/Las-Vegas/dsc03122.jpg

 

[jane]

According to the planning notice outside of Boland's Mills, which I checked on my way home this evening, they're turning it into a 'mixed use' complex, consisting of offices and a fucking hotel. This will involve what looks like a pretty severe gutting of the main building and knocking down the silos and some of the storage facilities.

Total bummer.

 

[shitepipe]

According to the planning notice outside of Boland's Mills, which I checked on my way home this evening, they're turning it into a 'mixed use' complex, consisting of offices and a fucking hotel. This will involve what looks like a pretty severe gutting of the main building and knocking down the silos and some of the storage facilities.

Total bummer.

this is what they should do:

pompeia cultural centre in brazil by Lina Bo bardi

 

[jane]

But that would take foresight! And be interesting! And would serve the public good! And so, would not be in keeping with the spirit of modern Ireland.

Fucking hell, that place looks deadly.

You know, they want this whole new Docklands shit to be 'cutting edge', and yet it's all offices and shiny apartments that are already crumbling. Talk about a Paper Tiger. Fucking hell. They're building a 'cultural centre', i.e. concert hall, when the mill could be converted into, if not that specifically, something far more interesting and useful that would really draw people to the area.

 

[flashback]

The Corpo offices on Wood Quay can fuck off for a start.

 

[carbide]

The Corpo offices on Wood Quay can fuck off for a start.

i must say, i think i really like the additions (i.e. not the sam stephenson parts) - the inside is pretty great and the only part i'd call a mistake or a monstrosity is the dealing-and-mugging area outside on the hill. but, opinion and all that.


and i am filled with dread about boland's mills. the redeveloped areas on either side of the docks feel pretty sanitised and deserted, and the mills almost make the death-defying journey into ringsend (trucks! cars!) worth it.

 

[flashback]

... i am filled with dread about boland's mills. the redeveloped areas on either side of the docks feel pretty sanitised and deserted, and the mills almost make the death-defying journey into ringsend (trucks! cars!) worth it.

Oh jesus yeah. That's right. I used to live in Sandymount there, and cycle into the city every day, and there was that one humback bridge just on from the bridge your picture where the road narrowed and turned.... Jaysus. Fucking running the gauntlet there boss. Your best best was just work up a good head of speed, and go for it. Then you have to rag along the strand road there.

I have no idea how I am still alive now that I think of it.

 

[flashback]

Here, Carbide...
are those flickr photos yours?
There are a few very nice ones there if they are.
Mod points for you even if they are not yours, its a cool collection.

 

[carbide]

Here, Carbide...
are those flickr photos yours?
There are a few very nice ones there if they are.
Mod points for you even if they are not yours, its a cool collection.

aw, shucks.