Ah, gig..November Coming Fire, The Skies Collide, Based On Reason, Breaking The Walls (1 Viewer)

Every band has expenses. Every gig costs a band money, I don't care if a band is coming from Kent or Kenya to play, the quality of music should be the deciding factor in how much is charged in.

The band if they are going on tour prob has a van already and therefore the only extra overhead is going to be petrol and accomodation.

If we are going to use your system to charge into gig we then need to work out how much it has cost the band to come over to play the gig and then divide it out my how ever many people are there just incase they make €2 profit by playing a gig.

Did u2 play for free in dublin because they live close to the venue and therefore had no travelling expenses? em.... no they didn't.

I am not suggesting that I want to make money of a band, I am saying that it shouldn't make a difference to anything except the music and entertainment.

I love playing music and don't care if I get paid or not, its just the principal of the matter that annoys me. Oh and by the way 10 miles is still inside Dublin...
 
Let's say there are 4 bands playing a gig. For sake of arguement,1 band is touring and from another country. the other 3 bands are local. Let's also say that after the organisers expenses of venue ,PA etc there is 200 euro left. Should the money be split 50 each? I don't really think that's fair. The touring band has had much greater expense to get to the gig so I personally think they should get more money.
I think there is also a much greater arguement to be had involving support for gigs. People moaning about whatever price is too much etc.
Other things that could easily be brought in are the fact that quite often in dublin anyway,and I know to some degree at least most other places also. The local bands turn up expecting to use the touring bands equipment.
I know that's not really structered well,but it is some food for the arguement.
And Mac,that's not quite what I was getting at. It just happens to be the reality for most people. We could start a whole other thread on that discussion.
 
David Maher said:
Every band has expenses. Every gig costs a band money, I don't care if a band is coming from Kent or Kenya to play, the quality of music should be the deciding factor in how much is charged in.

The band if they are going on tour prob has a van already and therefore the only extra overhead is going to be petrol and accomodation.

If we are going to use your system to charge into gig we then need to work out how much it has cost the band to come over to play the gig and then divide it out my how ever many people are there just incase they make €2 profit by playing a gig.

Did u2 play for free in dublin because they live close to the venue and therefore had no travelling expenses? em.... no they didn't.

I am not suggesting that I want to make money of a band, I am saying that it shouldn't make a difference to anything except the music and entertainment.

I love playing music and don't care if I get paid or not, its just the principal of the matter that annoys me. Oh and by the way 10 miles is still inside Dublin...

First of all,fuck U2,thay have nothing to do with this discussion.
Right,I don;t know too many bands who own a van. I've been in bands who have toured europe and played/toured the uk countless times. My band never owned a van for any of these tours. I also happen to know a lot of people who have been in touring bands,I could count the number of them who owned vans on one hand.

And to be honest and completely blunt. I could also count on one hand the number of bands in ireland I think are worthy of paying to see. Still don't think I should get in for free though.
Theoretically,touring bands should pretty much be a bit more together than your average local band. They usually own equipment etc. I'm much more up for taking the risk that a touring band who I may never get another chance to see again are good,than a local band I will get countless oportunities to see again and probably when the y get much better.
 
Re: Ah, gig..November Coming Fire, The Skies Collide, Based On Reason, Breaking The W

David Maher said:
The band if they are going on tour prob has a van already and therefore the only extra overhead is going to be petrol and accomodation.

If a band do possess a van already, then that is also an overhead for them, the same as you and your guitar or whatever. Thus it seems that according to this they should be paid more by your model than some lad hopping on the bus.

David Maher said:
If we are going to use your system to charge into gig we then need to work out how much it has cost the band to come over to play the gig and then divide it out my how ever many people are there just incase they make €2 profit by playing a gig.

Point out to me exactly where I said I was opposed to bands making a profit, would you?

David Maher said:
I Did u2 play for free in dublin because they live close to the venue and therefore had no travelling expenses? em.... no they didn't.

At what point did I claim that travelling expenses were the only overhead for a band? Did U2 perform their gig without instruments on a street corner?

David Maher said:
I love playing music and don't care if I get paid or not, its just the principal of the matter that annoys me. Oh and by the way 10 miles is still inside Dublin...

That all depends upon where in Dublin the venue is located, no?
 
Firstly Bill, why don't you wait till Thursday and come and see my band, that is if you can spare the €8 entrance fee. If you still think we are sh*t then fair enough.

Secondly, I completly agree that a touring band should get more money, after all it is their gig at the end of the day. I don't expect to get any money at all from playing on Thursday and personally I would prefer to see November Coming Fire get it as they are excellent!!!

I don't want to be mis quoted on this one, I am not looking for money.

I do not think touring bands should not get paid.

Anytime we play we always bring our own head and front line drums, we ask weeks in advance to make sure it is alright to use the bands cabs and basic kit, (I am sure it would be very impractical for 4 drummers to turn up with their entire drum kits to a small gig!!).

My point was NOT that each band should be paid the same, it was that people should not think it is ok to pay into a gig just cos the band is touring. That was what pissed me off.

It was as if "I have no idea who is playing, I am not paying to get into that" "oh the band is from england, ok I will pay then".

Anyway, on a lighter note, the gig should be really good, November Coming Fire are excellent. I have only heard the few tunes they have on myspace but they should way cool.

Thanks.
 
Re: Ah, gig..November Coming Fire, The Skies Collide, Based On Reason, Breaking The W

mac warzonescum said:
If a band do possess a van already, then that is also an overhead for them, the same as you and your guitar or whatever. Thus it seems that according to this they should be paid more by your model than some lad hopping on the bus.

A van is a fixed asset. It goes under the heading of "Motor Vehicles". i.e. they can sell the van after the tour therefore it is not an overhead. The depreciation of the van is however.


mac warzonescum said:
Point out to me exactly where I said I was opposed to bands making a profit, would you?

By not paying into a gig (or not wanting to unless they are "touring") then a band is obvioulsy not going to make a profit.

mac warzonescum said:
At what point did I claim that travelling expenses were the only overhead for a band? Did U2 perform their gig without instruments on a street corner?

You said that a touring band has to travel and therefore it is ok to pay to go into a gig.

mac warzonescum said:
That all depends upon where in Dublin the venue is located, no?

Yes it does, I was refering to a band from outside Dublin, they would have to travel more than 10 miles to get to the gig, that was all.

I hope this explains my point more clearly. Should you have any queries relating to the above please do not hesitate to contact me.

Many thanks,

David
 
I think it also had something to do with people not understanding the point I was trying to make.

I did not think it was just that someone would only pay to see a gig if the band was touring.

I should also be excused slightly because I am trying to work as well as type here on the forum.

Bad points made badly?! Two words come to mind....
 
Re: Ah, gig..November Coming Fire, The Skies Collide, Based On Reason, Breaking The W

David Maher said:
Firstly Bill, why don't you wait till Thursday and come and see my band, that is if you can spare the €8 entrance fee. If you still think we are sh*t then fair enough.

Secondly, I completly agree that a touring band should get more money, after all it is their gig at the end of the day. I don't expect to get any money at all from playing on Thursday and personally I would prefer to see November Coming Fire get it as they are excellent!!!

I don't want to be mis quoted on this one, I am not looking for money.

I do not think touring bands should not get paid.

Anytime we play we always bring our own head and front line drums, we ask weeks in advance to make sure it is alright to use the bands cabs and basic kit, (I am sure it would be very impractical for 4 drummers to turn up with their entire drum kits to a small gig!!).

My point was NOT that each band should be paid the same, it was that people should not think it is ok to pay into a gig just cos the band is touring. That was what pissed me off.

It was as if "I have no idea who is playing, I am not paying to get into that" "oh the band is from england, ok I will pay then".

Anyway, on a lighter note, the gig should be really good, November Coming Fire are excellent. I have only heard the few tunes they have on myspace but they should way cool.

Thanks.

Most hardcore/punk bands don't own their own van and never will. This is a huge expense and the biggest reason why a lot of tours don't break even. Van + petrol. Being well paid for one or two shows can save a whole tour from financial disaster. One of my bands just lost around 1,000 euros on a tour, which was just less than the price of the van rental. On our previous tour we just about broke even, cos we borrowed a friend's van.

On this last tour we weren't paid so well at a lot of the shows, a couple of which had ridiculously low entry costs, others of which the money was split in a bizarre way between the bands (with, as you seem to be suggesting should be done, bands with much lesser expenses and far lesser distances to travel being paid the same as those with much greater expenses), and since some of the shows were with bigger bands who demanded a greater share of the door takings. So despite mostly great shows, good turnouts and selling a shitload of merchandise, the tour finances were abysmal, and we in the band now pay those expenses, added to which I owe for buying a new cab & head a few months ago, which means I now owe more than 600 euros and am living in my friends attic until I've money to rent somewhere, in a couple of months, when I've made the money back from my job and paid it back. I'm okay with this, as far as I see it it was a fuckin deadly holiday, and now I've got excellent musical equiptment.

I think 7 or 8 euros is fair enough for a DIY punk gig with a touring band; the price of gigs has never stayed in step with economic inflation.

Punk & hardcore is music with a minority audience, as such it usually comes down to breaking even. Most people going to the gigs don't have that much money, it's expensive to be in a band, etc. I think it's imperative to first of all pay the touring bands as much as possible, and after that to give the local bands as much as possible. The chances are 99,999 to 1 that you'll never make money off your music, if you're lucky you may offset the expenses of practise, equiptment, touring, recording and so on with what you make from gigs, merchandise, etc. Personally I never expect any more (it'd be fuckin nice though) and I reckon the privilege of playing music to people is worth it.

Mac, I'd love if it was possible for DIY bands to make enough money to be able play music full-time and make a living, but that's not really generally possible and is only available to an elite few, and as such I don't have a problem with the stigma of bands making money.
 
so we're now saying that band expenses for a gig should include instruments and equipment. sweet. someone owes Couzens about 15 grand!

and surely quality of the music is an opinion. you can't put a price on opinion.

charge what you want for a gig- if you don't like it don't go!

but in general, being from a island as we are, 'touring' bands (ie ones from outside of ireland) will incur much greater costs to come here and play. therefore, on a gig-by-gig basis, charging slightly more for such bands is justifable. its not to say local irish bands aren't worth charging more for... its just simple economics. root of all evil.

now shut up and ROCK!!!
 
GARYXKNIFEDX said:
First of all,fuck U2,

that made me laugh very loudly in work here - luckily everyone is gone home.
more punk points to the Sloan!!!

PS - next time you travel to belfast you're not gettin a penny!! not a penny y'hear!!!
 

i could on forever about this topic as well....

When i organise shows i always try to pay all bands. Even if its only 20 euro between 4 people it is still a token of thanx and they can buy a pint each/get a taxi home. I do however warn local bands that if a touring band is playing and there is a poor turnout i will not be able to give them anything. If they(local band) were supplying equipment for the other bands to use i would make more of an effort to pay them so they can get their gear home in a cab or whatever.

Also i think that it should be remembered that the local bands often bring a crowd....some of the touring bands that play are unknown to most and people often dont go to the show to see them in particular.

When i pay the headliners i tell them how much i have paid the support bands.

I think everyone should pay into the gig except if they are helping out at that particular gig.... setting up pa, carrying gear, posters, putting up a band, supplying gear etc. It really disgusts me when people try to get free into a gig(often people from other bands, or an active helpers boy/girl friend). If you want to go to gig, even if you only want to see one of the bands you should pay.....no excuses. No money? Stay at home and manage learn to manage your money better.

I have charged 5 euro (or less) for all gigs as far as i remember ( exception was Skinlab/Labrat/Freebase and ten more) over the years. I actually think that this is too little and am hoping to put this up to 7 euro for shows with far travelling bands. Everything else is going up in price is'nt it?

It does annoy me a little when bands dont have their own equipment especially when i have worked hard over the years to buy good and expensive equipment. I know not everyone has a job, is studying or for whatever reason cant afford an amp but if you are serious about playing in a band and putting on a decent show and expect people to pay to see you, you should be proffesional about it. Of all the bands in Ireland how many can actually say they have all their own equipment....gig worthy that is.... and are willing to drag it across the country for a 25 minute gig? If your young and just starting out i can understand if you dont ahve professional gear..... however why is it that young lads in covers bands manage to get their shit together and work for the summer and buy a savage amp? You've got to make sacrifices if you want to be in a band.

Its probably punk as fuck to share a shitty backline with 30 watt amps that give you a 1000 volt shock everytime you stomp on the footswitch.... but dont be surprised when no one but the few diehards turn up at the next gig.

Dont want to come across weird or anything here but i have noticed that bands from the north are usually more profesional when it comes to equipment and stuff. Is that just me?

 
Re: Ah, gig..November Coming Fire, The Skies Collide, Based On Reason, Breaking The W

2 cool 2 dance said:

Dont want to come across weird or anything here but i have noticed that bands from the north are usually more profesional when it comes to equipment and stuff. Is that just me?


Survival of the fittest in operation: those bands in the North which can't get it together to sort out equipment and stuff and much less likely to make it to your part of the world than then what can.
 

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