additional powers for gardaí (1 Viewer)

[pete]

Bearing in mind that refusing to leave somewhere when instructed to do so by a police officer is already an arrestable offence.....

September 25, 2002

(10:32) The Minister for Justice, Michael McDowell, has said he is seriously concerned at the growing level of drunkenness and street violence in towns and cities around the country.

Speaking in Galway last night, Mr McDowell said new legislation would be introduced soon to give the Gardaí additional powers to curb what he described as drink-fuelled late night thuggery.

Speaking at the launch of the Salthill Business Watch scheme, Michael McDowell said that much of this violence had its origins in or outside licensed premises and fast food outlets and he was determined to stamp it out.

He said the new Criminal Justice Bill would give Gardaí additional powers to deal with drunken and disorderly delinquents who created disturbances outside pubs, off-licences, discos, amusement arcades, chip shops, take-aways and mobile food vehicles.

The Minister congratulated the Salthill business community for inaugurating their own crime prevention scheme to address after hours rowdiness.

 

[Dan]

In fairness, salthill can be a fairly dangerous place after the pubs and clubs close. I do wonder what the extra powers are though...

 

[pete]

http://www.iccl.ie/criminalj/pubs.html#order

interesting to read the comments from the ICCL on the previous Public Order act (the 1993 one)....

SECTION 5

The criminalisation of shouting, singing or boisterous conduct in public is the most flatly atrocious assault on any concept of a free society. This is so particularly in the context of Irish society and history. Even if the public is annoyed, irritated and repelled by the conduct of others in public that of itself does not justify the creation of a crime. A democratic free society must encompass the expression of varied interest, loyalties, enthusiasms and the expression and in modes to the annoyance and repulsion of other citizens. The fact that the vast majority of the public would be or are annoyed by the singing and shouting of others in public is not an argument to stigmatise such conduct as criminal. To paraphrase Voltaire it is as necessary to fight for the rights of those songs and shouts not matter how untuneful and abhorrent as it is to cherish free speech that is an anathema to one. This provision is an insulting betrayal of the progress of the idea of an independent, liberal, self-reliant, proud and free people propagated throughout Irish history. It is reminiscent of the Elizabethan edicts outlawing Irish bards and rhymes and is falling close to the arresting of men and women who are soccer supporters for the wearing of the green, white and orange. The public declamation of a song, however maudlin, however drunken, however loud, cannot, in a country which takes pride in its heritage of music, craic, roistering, be a crime. Look at who have been criminalised in retrospect: Zozimus, Thomas Moore, Molly Malone (who would also fall foul of Section 10) and every leader of note in Irish history. This cannot be a serious proposition. What is a 'reasonable cause' for annoyance?

Note: No person need be annoyed. Is the content of the song or shouting to be the determinant of the crime? Surely that vitiates free expression at its heart? Because a Garda must subjectively decide if what is sung or shouted is likely to annoy some person somewhere in the vicinity and the only sure guide for that decisions is what the Garda conceives right-thinking members of the community would be annoyed upon hearing. Any dissident voice, any protest, any matter of social or political import expressed volubly in public is therefore subject to this judgement, arrest, prosecution and conviction.

Common sense tells us that to be awakened from sleep by the boisterous singing of youngsters coming from a Disco in the early hours may not be as nightingales. But surely our repose is not that sacred a thing? The exuberance of youth should be extolled, not quietened. The very heaven of the young should peel and ring with laughter and high jinks. To be alive is to be noisy. Section 5 is a charter prepared by crabby, middle-aged, middle-classed spoilsports who wish to gag the frolics and gift of youthful antics, busking, rapping, and dancing in the streets. Calvin's Geneva will be a Las Vegas compared to Dublin under the interdict of Section 5.

 

[pete]

Originally posted by Dan
In fairness, salthill can be a fairly dangerous place after the pubs and clubs close. I do wonder what the extra powers are though...

X-Ray vision? Jedi Mind Tricks? There's very little else they can't do to you already...

 

[silo]

jaysis. that ICCL lump of text makes all the relevant points, but whoever wrote it seems to think they're gonna end up having it included in the pengiun dictionary of very important speeches about important stuff, volume xxiv. 'to paraphrase voltaire'? chortle.

 

[IFF]

if the PD's went to curb the violence at nights, they could employ gardaí to work after 1am in many towns

in my town, ardee, there is no gardai working on any day of the week after 1am

if there is trouble and someone from ardee calls 999 they are put thrugh to the navan gardai for heavens sake

 

[silo]

or they could reduce the amount of pub licences or give the licences to normal village pubs not meatmarket superdiscos, or fine the owners of pubs for continued facilitation of violent behaviour, or have a garda standing at the exit to pub carparks breathalysing people on the way out, or any one of a million different things, but that's not how the f.f./p.d.'s class war goes. better to invent more crimes, just look at the practical applications in the long term!

 

[Dan]

Originally posted by silo
or they could reduce the amount of pub licences or give the licences to normal village pubs not meatmarket superdiscos, or fine the owners of pubs for continued facilitation of violent behaviour, or have a garda standing at the exit to pub carparks breathalysing people on the way out, or any one of a million different things, but that's not how the f.f./p.d.'s class war goes. better to invent more crimes, just look at the practical applications in the long term!

Whatever about city cops, the country ones are really corrupt, and thats another big problem. A blind eye can be turned to anything as long as a few squid is coming their way.

 

[sarah]

Originally posted by Dan


Whatever about city cops, the country ones are really corrupt, and thats another big problem. A blind eye can be turned to anything as long as a few squid is coming their way.

But the vast majority of the police force in Dublin is from
bogland, and my close encounter with one such Dublin sargeant
showed me that city gardai are just as corrupt as their country cousins, this one also
happened to be an evil landlord of mine.
Another copper was running a brothel opposite my friends
house in castleknock.

 

[egg_]

In keeping with the great Irish tradition, this law will probably be invoked only when a cop is pissed off at someone.

We may as well dump all our laws and replace them with this one:
"Being disliked by any person in authority (police, govt, judges) is an offence. Anything else is allowed"