2020-21 Football thread (2 Viewers)

Richie

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I wholeheartedly support what Kenny is trying to do, though there are only vague glimmers so far (bits of the Slovakia and Serbia games, really) to suggest that he might be able to actually pull it off. Ideally you would bring a manager with that sort of ambition in at the end of a 10-15 year project of reforming all the youth structures and producing a new generation of exciting players drilled in a particular style of play. I thought we were maybe on the cusp of something like that when the Under 21 side were looking exciting 18 months ago, but it now looks like those players aren't quite ready yet for senior level and instead he is trying to convert probably the most mediocre squad we've had since the '60s into a crack passing unit, bit of a cart before the horse vibe.

Kenny's media demeanour doesn't help him, there's a nervousness and defensiveness there even under gentle questioning, he could really do with a bit of training on that. At least there seems to be something of a weary acceptance from the general public that the country's football setup on many levels is thoroughly fucked thanks to Delaney & those who enabled him and you might as well at least give somebody with a positive vision a proper go of it. Really there is no long term benefit in bringing in another Championship level manager looking for a last paycheck to keep it tight & eke out a few draws, Mick was scraping the barrel with that in the last cycle and it wasn't enough. He'd really want to avoid any more Luxemboug style humiliations though, nobody's reputation can withstand too many of those.
 

Cormcolash

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No what you're saying is a reasonable assessment, it's the tabloid hacks right now that are all out for Kenny's head. There's some ex-players etc. saying that Kenny has got it wrong blah blah blah, but none of them have any suggestion as to how it could be better apart from "play the more senior players" - but anyone with working eyes can see that the likes of Robbie Brady and Jeff Hendrick not only aren't any better than the young lads, but actually are lazier and have a fairly bad attitude. McClean and Long stand out as the two more senior players who will work their arses off and chase down balls to nothing, but both of them aren't actually good in their positions, they just seem better because they have far better attitudes.
Its blatantly obvious that Kenny needs to build a new team using young players, which is what he's doing, because there are literally no older players that are good enough to set up a team around. Our best outfield players are full-backs, which is actually the least important position on the pitch. It's also obvious though that we're pretty fucked unless we use the usual tactic of stealing players off other countries, as we just don't have enough good players coming out of Ireland due to the non-existent development program in the country.
Sacking Kenny isn't going to change any of that, more likely we'd just end up with another Trap style manager that would just be hoping to get 1-0 wins playing atrocious football and would get fuckin hammered if they ever did manage to qualify for a championship, just like Trap's team got fuckin hammered in Poland.
 

Cormcolash

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I wholeheartedly support what Kenny is trying to do, though there are only vague glimmers so far (bits of the Slovakia and Serbia games, really) to suggest that he might be able to actually pull it off. Ideally you would bring a manager with that sort of ambition in at the end of a 10-15 year project of reforming all the youth structures and producing a new generation of exciting players drilled in a particular style of play. I thought we were maybe on the cusp of something like that when the Under 21 side were looking exciting 18 months ago, but it now looks like those players aren't quite ready yet for senior level and instead he is trying to convert probably the most mediocre squad we've had since the '60s into a crack passing unit, bit of a cart before the horse vibe.

Kenny's media demeanour doesn't help him, there's a nervousness and defensiveness there even under gentle questioning, he could really do with a bit of training on that. At least there seems to be something of a weary acceptance from the general public that the country's football setup on many levels is thoroughly fucked thanks to Delaney & those who enabled him and you might as well at least give somebody with a positive vision a proper go of it. Really there is no long term benefit in bringing in another Championship level manager looking for a last paycheck to keep it tight & eke out a few draws, Mick was scraping the barrel with that in the last cycle and it wasn't enough. He'd really want to avoid any more Luxemboug style humiliations though, nobody's reputation can withstand too many of those.
Ha snap.
I was just thinking about that Luxembourg team though, thinking that there's not a single player on our team who would get on the pitch ahead of that Rodrigues fella that scored against us.

Edit: And that lad is from Portugal basically, shows how other smaller countries have caught on to the whole granny rule jobs.
 

rettucs

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No what you're saying is a reasonable assessment, it's the tabloid hacks right now that are all out for Kenny's head. There's some ex-players etc. saying that Kenny has got it wrong blah blah blah, but none of them have any suggestion as to how it could be better apart from "play the more senior players" - but anyone with working eyes can see that the likes of Robbie Brady and Jeff Hendrick not only aren't any better than the young lads, but actually are lazier and have a fairly bad attitude. McClean and Long stand out as the two more senior players who will work their arses off and chase down balls to nothing, but both of them aren't actually good in their positions, they just seem better because they have far better attitudes.
Its blatantly obvious that Kenny needs to build a new team using young players, which is what he's doing, because there are literally no older players that are good enough to set up a team around. Our best outfield players are full-backs, which is actually the least important position on the pitch. It's also obvious though that we're pretty fucked unless we use the usual tactic of stealing players off other countries, as we just don't have enough good players coming out of Ireland due to the non-existent development program in the country.
Sacking Kenny isn't going to change any of that, more likely we'd just end up with another Trap style manager that would just be hoping to get 1-0 wins playing atrocious football and would get fuckin hammered if they ever did manage to qualify for a championship, just like Trap's team got fuckin hammered in Poland.
far be it from me to get involved in a conversation about Irish soccer, but I do have skin in this game. I knew Kenny reasonably well back in the 90s when I was working part time in a supermarket, and he was doing the delivery rounds for the Kenny family's deli meats business. He was always an absolute gent and he took great interest in my hurling career (I was playing county back then). Just the nicest, most sincere lad you'd meet. At that time he was playing for St.James' Gate, and I remember going to watch them a few times to see him playing. One game against Bohs in Dalyer, a cup semi-final replay that I popped into on my way home from college in DCU. Bohs won 3-1, Kenny came off the bench and got the goal for Jame's Gate.

He'd been with Bluebell before that and around the same time, another ex-Bluebell lad, Paul Byrne, was making a name for himself up north for Bangor. So much so that Celtic ended up signing him. Any of us who remember those times will remember what a raw talent Byrne was, but he was a total loose cannon. He had a mouth on him, and rubbed a lot of lads up the wrong way. That ended up being his undoing, and was, among other reasons, why his career didn't hit the heights it should have. Anyway, I was in Parkhead for an Old Firm around then and was in the Celtic Shop at the ground. They used to sell photos of players in fancy looking cardboard frames for around £4. As a joke I bought one of Paul Byrne and gave it to Kenny. He said to me that the 2 of us should head to Parkhead for a game sometime and hang out with Byrne, who he was decent enough mates with.

Funnily enough, I was walking up O'Connell st, on my way home from college, going from one bus stop to the next, when a coach pulled up outside the Carlton (thats the one on the Clery's side of the street, right?), and the Irish squad got off. They were heading in to watch Philadelphia and had a game in the couple of days after. Anyway, Byrne was there so I went up to him and told him I was mates with Kenny, and that we were heading over to a game. The fcuker could not have been sounder. He said that if we were heading over, to let him know, and that we could stay with him. Jesus I was chuffed. Unfortunately it never happened. Byrne ended up leaving Celtic, went to Brighton for a bit, and went off the rails.

A couple of years later Kenny ended up managing Bohs, after doing well with his home club, Tallaght Town. He gave Byrne a chance to resurrect his career, at least a little bit, and, though I think he was mainly making appearances as a sub, I think he did quite well. It probably did a lot for Byrne personally as much as anything else.

Anyway, none of that is related to how Kenny is doing as Ireland manager, but I've seen some comments on how he comes across as a bit standoffish, and a bit of a prick in his interviews. My experience of the man is that he's the most genuine, soundest fucker, whose interests are nothing more than whatever team he's managing, doing well. He's certainly not in it for himself.

The current Ireland team, which is arguably the worst in my lifetime, is one that I've been following the closest, since the Charlton years. Young O'Shea played for the same gah club as me, and the kit man, another Tallaght head, is also from the gah club. I didn't know O'Shea but I know the kit man - another sound fucker. Bazuna is also fairly local to me. I think I recall seeing him up my gym a bit (a lot of Shamrock Rovers lads used that over the years), but can't be certain that was him.

If there was a world cup of sound cunts, Ireland would win. Fuck the begrudgers and I want nothing more than for Kenny to succeed in the job. Pricks need to back the fuck off.
 

nuke terrorist

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far be it from me to get involved in a conversation about Irish soccer, but I do have skin in this game. I knew Kenny reasonably well back in the 90s when I was working part time in a supermarket, and he was doing the delivery rounds for the Kenny family's deli meats business. He was always an absolute gent and he took great interest in my hurling career (I was playing county back then). Just the nicest, most sincere lad you'd meet. At that time he was playing for St.James' Gate, and I remember going to watch them a few times to see him playing. One game against Bohs in Dalyer, a cup semi-final replay that I popped into on my way home from college in DCU. Bohs won 3-1, Kenny came off the bench and got the goal for Jame's Gate.

He'd been with Bluebell before that and around the same time, another ex-Bluebell lad, Paul Byrne, was making a name for himself up north for Bangor. So much so that Celtic ended up signing him. Any of us who remember those times will remember what a raw talent Byrne was, but he was a total loose cannon. He had a mouth on him, and rubbed a lot of lads up the wrong way. That ended up being his undoing, and was, among other reasons, why his career didn't hit the heights it should have. Anyway, I was in Parkhead for an Old Firm around then and was in the Celtic Shop at the ground. They used to sell photos of players in fancy looking cardboard frames for around £4. As a joke I bought one of Paul Byrne and gave it to Kenny. He said to me that the 2 of us should head to Parkhead for a game sometime and hang out with Byrne, who he was decent enough mates with.

Funnily enough, I was walking up O'Connell st, on my way home from college, going from one bus stop to the next, when a coach pulled up outside the Carlton (thats the one on the Clery's side of the street, right?), and the Irish squad got off. They were heading in to watch Philadelphia and had a game in the couple of days after. Anyway, Byrne was there so I went up to him and told him I was mates with Kenny, and that we were heading over to a game. The fcuker could not have been sounder. He said that if we were heading over, to let him know, and that we could stay with him. Jesus I was chuffed. Unfortunately it never happened. Byrne ended up leaving Celtic, went to Brighton for a bit, and went off the rails.

A couple of years later Kenny ended up managing Bohs, after doing well with his home club, Tallaght Town. He gave Byrne a chance to resurrect his career, at least a little bit, and, though I think he was mainly making appearances as a sub, I think he did quite well. It probably did a lot for Byrne personally as much as anything else.

Anyway, none of that is related to how Kenny is doing as Ireland manager, but I've seen some comments on how he comes across as a bit standoffish, and a bit of a prick in his interviews. My experience of the man is that he's the most genuine, soundest fucker, whose interests are nothing more than whatever team he's managing, doing well. He's certainly not in it for himself.

The current Ireland team, which is arguably the worst in my lifetime, is one that I've been following the closest, since the Charlton years. Young O'Shea played for the same gah club as me, and the kit man, another Tallaght head, is also from the gah club. I didn't know O'Shea but I know the kit man - another sound fucker. Bazuna is also fairly local to me. I think I recall seeing him up my gym a bit (a lot of Shamrock Rovers lads used that over the years), but can't be certain that was him.

If there was a world cup of sound cunts, Ireland would win. Fuck the begrudgers and I want nothing more than for Kenny to succeed in the job. Pricks need to back the fuck off.

great post ! thank you.
I'm not at all surprised what you've said about Stephen Kenny.
I always liked him even if I don't follow the local scene like I should.
he's totally genuine and unselfish - a really good guy.
the personal nature of some of the attacks is particularly unfair.
I'm disappointed at the stuff former players who should know better have come out with.

the Irish team hugely overachieved for decades but we've never had such a lack of talent before.
in only a few of the games so far could Ireland have done better.
Stephen definitely has to see the campaign out.

with under 18's not allowed go to England anymore ('cause of Brexit) the FAI need to get a locally based youth academy programme going as quickly as possible or things could get even worse.
any word on anything on that front ?

Paul Byrne was someone I forgot about completely. so Kurtis is his son.
Paul once got a brace against Rangers.
 

ann post

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Passive aggressive? I think you need to look up the meaning, and spelling.
Ok how would you correctly describe it? Condescending? Dismissive? A display of your soccer superiority? A display of you anti Irish baggage, let me know how I'm wrong and remind everyone once again the correct manner in which to talk of this sport.

My response was no more off pitch than yours is the point here, but yours came out of nowhere or somewhere that you aren't aware of, how would that be defined...?
 

Benny Cake

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Ok how would you correctly describe it? Condescending? Dismissive? A display of your soccer superiority? A display of you anti Irish baggage, let me know how I'm wrong and remind everyone once again the correct manner in which to talk of this sport.

My response was no more off pitch than yours is the point here, but yours came out of nowhere or somewhere that you aren't aware of, how would that be defined...?
I would describe is it as a light-hearted remark related to Ireland football threads and forums in general - which those who more often frequent this thread and other forums would be fine with.

I would describe your reaction as very thin-skinned and over the top, and I recommend that you chill out, but that's up to you of course.
 

Cormcolash

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I would describe is it as a light-hearted remark related to Ireland football threads and forums in general - which those who more often frequent this thread and other forums would be fine with.

I would describe your reaction as very thin-skinned and over the top, and I recommend that you chill out, but that's up to you of course.
Oh yeah, well I think YOU SHOULD CHILL THE FUCK OUT OF FUCKING ELSE!!!
 

nuke terrorist

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love the revolutionary zeal of the last few days -
latest from outside Stamford Bridge:
I'm amazed the evil Super League was defeated so quickly
well done to all involved and never underestimate us simple football fans !
also in the last hour Evil Ed Woodward has gone from Man Utd.
 

nuke terrorist

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Celtic have won the European Cup more times than PSG, Spurs and Arse !
I support Liverpool but if they get sanctioned they can't complain.

the club bosses kept the whole scheme secret and were so greedy and out of touch they somehow didn't see this coming and caved in quickly.
Real and Barca had the most to gain from this. their debts have been insane for a very long time.
Real are over a billion in the red.

I just heard in last half hour that Derek Chauvin has been convicted of all three counts of murder of George Floyd which while the decision was a no brainer it rounds out an unusually rare empowering day.
 

Cormcolash

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The president of Real was actually on telly saying how "We lost 200 million euro last year, what else are we meant to do??"
To which of course the actual answer is "Not spend hundreds of millions buying players and paying their wages, and instead operate under the same limitations as all the other teams in Spain have to (except Barca and maybe Atletico a bit), you fucking dickheads"

The Super League has been good for a proper LOL anyway, its collapsed already and all the clubs involved look completely fucking ridiculous!
 

nuke terrorist

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Yeah - great fun.
I hate Chelsea but the protest last night was probably the killer blow. Great scenes of celebration when the supporters heard they had won and the Chelsea were going to back down - a job well done.
I'm calling it 'The Battle of Stamford Bridge'.

The clubs will probably have to spend a fortune to extricate themselves from whatever they signed up to.

If any other club was as debt ridden as Barca or Real they would have gone under by now or gotten relegated for financial mismangement.
Real Madrid owe a billion odd Euro, Barca are nearly bankrupt with 1.173 billion in debt (!!!)
Inter are 630 million Euros in the red.
 

Cormcolash

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I say just let all those clubs go bust if that's how it's going to go. Fuck them for spending money they don't have. It's the ultimate Financial Fair Play, just let them go under, haha.
I was just thinking yesterday though, this is all too convenient for UEFA, that it happens at the exact moment they are announcing a CL restructure that will just favour the big teams anyway. The new version of the CL will be a load of shit, and we'll never see a team from outside the top 5 leagues in the quarter finals anymore. No more Ajax, Porto giving people a run. From 2024 it will just be basically the same 8 teams in the quarters every year.
It's interesting that the Super League announcement was made right before the very day UEFA were going to announce these changes, and now there are no questions about the changes at all, just laughing at the Super League instead.
 

Richie

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They should run the Super League every year as a hypothetical tournament, it can be like a game of football administrator poker, the last team left in it after all others have withdrawn due to fan outrage gets the prize by default.
 

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